Juggler Vain wrote:More phrases in LATE WAR that are familiar to Book of Mormon readers:
LATE WAR, LIV:13, Pg. 217
13 And Jackson spake, and said unto his captains of fifties, and his captains of hundreds, Fear not; we defend our lives and our liberty, and in that thing the Lord will not forsake us.
Book of Mormon, Mosiah 23:36:
36 And it came to pass that the Lamanites promised unto Alma and his brethren, that if they would show them the away which led to the land of Nephi that they would grant unto them their lives and their liberty.
Is it just me, but I don't see any of the regular defenders of the faith making any comments on this thread. I wonder why that is?
I think the simple fact of the matter is that it's going to be extremely difficult for the Mopologists to formulate a response to this. You can't really look to BCSpace or why me for an authoritative response on this issue. Maklelan could probably offer up something interesting, but I doubt he's really got much that would help out the apologists' cause.
And man--they better hurry! The longer they do nothing, the more this seems like an uncontested slam-dunk. Only this is worse: this is Shaquille O'Neal completely shattering the backboard and tearing the rim from its moorings, with the game delayed for an entire hour as the facilities crew works to replace not only the rim and backboard, but the entire hoop mechanism, which has withered like a dying weed under the power of the dunk.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
I caught this thread yesterday as it started, but I wanted to have a chance to read the material in question a little more in depth myself before commenting.
I must say, I'm very disappointed in Nevo's snarky responses. There are other 19th century works that have been proposed as potential influences on the production of the Book of Mormon due to parallels in ideas or language that mostly function to show how the Book of Mormon's narrative style and thematic content existed within the context of a 19th century cultural milieu. As Don Bradley once said, if archaeologists discovered the Book of Mormon today, it would be no trouble at all to date it to the 2nd Great Awakening. Similar pseudo-Biblical works and 19th century mound builder myth help show why. Anything stronger than mutually shared cultural influence is hard to establish.
This is different in that the phrasing and content, in context, is so similar to Book of Mormon at points that it is a good potential candidate to establish direct narrative influence. I don't think we've realistically seen that before. It plainly is something deserving further study. To hand-wave it as nothing new, especially with some very weak references, seems desperate and beneath the usual quality of Nevo's comments.
Is it just me, but I don't see any of the regular defenders of the faith making any comments on this thread. I wonder why that is?
That's because this is a shocker and they were not prepared for this at all. This is going to change everything now and pretty much shelve a lot of the silly apologetic faith promoting Book of Mormon garbage produced by BYU. That stuff will go the way as did Mormon Doctrine and Bruce McConkie-poo and seem silly like Joseph Fielding Smith who was the most unscientific prophet of our time.
A dark cloud has descended over Mormonism and their apologetic sheep are about to scatter as the wolves devour them. Even DCP is on the run! Anything he says will be used against him not only by the critics but by his bosses, I think. He better be very careful. I recently read his fortune using tarot cards. Not a pretty picture at all.
Doctor Scratch wrote:You can't really look to BCSpace...
BCSpace may not want to defend the Church anymore, he might leave and start a better one based on this book. Check this out:
Las Vegas 26 wrote:And the mighty kings and potentates of the earth shall learn, from this example of Republican patriotism, that the PEOPLE are the only "legitimate sovereigns" of the land of Columbia
Now it's official doctrine that the Republican Party is God's party.
I'd further add that this work is similar enough to the Book of Mormon that it is a handy example to make a mockery of some of the Book of Mormon historicity apologetics by providing a 19c counterexample. It shows how silly and grasping those apologetics were in the first place. I see that isn't lost on some people in this thread right now. It would by an interesting find for the world of Mormon apologia for that reason alone.
Is there any background information on who Hunt is, his education, and how long it took to write The History of the Late War between the United States and Great Britain?
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
Is it just me, but I don't see any of the regular defenders of the faith making any comments on this thread. I wonder why that is?
I'm not sure why they haven't shown up. If you're willing to try to defend the Book of Abraham you will defend anything. They're probably waiting for the official apologist talking points before they jump in.
Official apoligist takling points: "IT IS OF THE DEVIL!" "IT IS OF THE DEVIL!" "IT IS OF THE DEVIL!" "IT IS OF THE DEVIL!" "IT IS OF THE DEVIL!" "IT IS OF THE DEVIL!" (repeat it until you believe it)
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo
Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man. - The Dude
Don't you know there ain't no devil, there's just god when he's drunk - Tom Waits
I think Doctor Scratch made a good point. This isn't something the apologists want to get in trouble with the Brethren over, by making the flock aware. We may find they defend this "as needed". If this is published in a peer reviewed journal, then surely they'll have the green light.
What else will be interesting is if the Old Guard is able to use the episode to say, "We told you that you'd need us!" to the current MI administration.
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.
LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.
