palerobber wrote:"Negative Questions in the Book of Mormon", by Ben Spackman, Insights, Vol. 26, Issue 4. FARMS Update No. 179 [...] In Hebrew, questions that require a yes or no answer are prefixed by hă (an interrogative particle), and negative questions are prefixed by hălôʾ (the particle plus the word for no). In contrast to a "simple question, when the questioner is wholly uncertain as to the answer to be expected," these negative questions, Hebrew scholars have pointed out, sometimes have an "exclamatory nuance" or "a special force of asseveration" (i.e., they are being used for rhetorical effect, conveying positive or even emphatic force). [...] One good example of a potentially Hebrew-based negative question in the Book of Mormon comes from Helaman 9, where Nephi is accused of murdering the chief judge, Seezoram. In prophetically sending the authorities to the true assassin, Seantum, Nephi instructs them to ask Seantum, "From whence cometh this blood [on your cloak]? Do we not know that it is the blood of your brother?" (Helaman 9:32). In other words, "We do indeed know that it is the blood of your brother." [...] A second example is a well-known passage from Moroni 10:4. [...] Additional examples of negative questions may include 1 Nephi 15:12; 2 Nephi 31:7; Jacob 5:48; Mosiah 4:19; 7:23; 20:18; 27:15; and Alma 5:11; 27:18; 39:18; 39:19; 47:34.
Chapter III, p. 26-27
23 For, lo ! are not the fighting men of Britain in multitude as the sand on the sea shore ? and shall we prevail against them ? 24 Are not the mighty ships of the king spread over the whole face of the waters? is not Britain the "bulwark of our religion?"
Chapter V, p. 32
4 Now the armies of the king of Britain, are they not numbered and written in the book of Hume, the scribe ? is not their name a terror to all nations ?
Chapter VI, p. 38
12 But if a man's ass falleth into a ditch, shall the master suffer thereby ? if injury can be prevented, shall we not rather with our might endeavor to help him ?
Chapter XVI, p. 88
32 Lo ! are we not the faithful servants of the king, our master ? have we not given unto him the one half of our whole substance ? and shall these Yankees take from us the remainder?
LOL! Most stimulating! Man I leave for one mere day and all you guys gives us pages more of analysis! This is phenomenal man....... So, if I am not making a mistake here, it appears to me to be a direct refutation of all the supposedly "ancient" aspects of the Book of Mormon, even in language, let alone history. I mean this is just a-s-t-o-u-n-d-i-n-g........ I think we have accumulated in a few mere days at least a couple dozen areas where concepts as well as detailed parts as well as philosophy and over-arching themes (war as Darth J hinted at) are not ancient whatever. Or, being a bit more careful, they *could* be ancient, there is nothing logical about saying they aren't, but Occam's Razor says take the simpler explanation, i.e., Joseph Smith's environment. I can't help but see the steady accumulation here as gaining significance. Each single case doesn't mean a lot by itself, but the total means everything. Isn't this a tactic that has been used in favor of the Book of Mormon for its antiquity? Indeed it is. I can't put the exact source out right now on this, but I *know* I have read this before.
Dr CamNC4Me
"Dr. Peterson and his Callithumpian cabal of BYU idiots have been marginalized by their own inevitable irrelevancy defending a fraud."
More phrasing found in LATE WAR and The Book of Mormon, but not in the KJV Old and New Testaments:
LATE WAR, XXIV:15, Pg. 88
15 But if, peradventure, we should be overcome, even then shall not the sacred cause of LIBERTY perish, neither shall the people of Columbia be disheartened.
Book of Mormon, Alma 51:17
17 And it came to pass that Moroni commanded that his army should go against those king-men, to pull down their pride and their nobility and level them with the earth, or they should take up arms and support the cause of liberty.
-JV
Last edited by Guest on Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
Philo Sophee wrote:OH MY HELL!!!!! I am going to have to go all the way back through these fabulous pages and re-read everything. Is someone compiling all these themes together yet? I am willing to join the Cassius University student enrollment.
Go for it - compile, someone should; and sure, enroll. Mr. Stak is the only other student, out of the thousands enrolled, who I know of that posts here.
Yes, read from the beginning. A huge amount of data here.
Yeah, what impressive is it hits all the way around. It's not just the language is dead-on Nephi talking, but the themes are also dead on. To me, the themes are more interesting than the word hits themselves.
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.
LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.
Gadianton wrote:Yeah, what impressive is it hits all the way around. It's not just the language is dead-on Nephi talking, but the themes are also dead on. To me, the themes are more interesting than the word hits themselves.
Same here. It really is uncanny how you sort of feel like you're reading a different version of the same book.
If Joseph had authored the Book of Mormon rather than translated it, he naturally would have used tornado rather than whirlwind as a reflection of his “vocabulary, environment, and perceptions” or his “language and vernacular.” He certainly would have had no way of knowing that whirlwind was the legitimate choice as a reflection of Maya languages from Mesoamerica....
Joseph’s choice of whirlwind rather than tornado went beyond his upstate New York “vocabulary, environment, and perceptions” or “language and vernacular.”
Ch. IX, pp. 33
1. NOW the movements of the enemy were as the motion of a whirlwind, which passeth from the north to the south, and from the east to the west.
DUDE! You just ROCK man.......LOL! Nuthin like direct evidence to just damn the apologetic is there...........
Dr CamNC4Me
"Dr. Peterson and his Callithumpian cabal of BYU idiots have been marginalized by their own inevitable irrelevancy defending a fraud."
Philo Sophee wrote:OH MY HELL!!!!! I am going to have to go all the way back through these fabulous pages and re-read everything. Is someone compiling all these themes together yet? I am willing to join the Cassius University student enrollment.
Go for it - compile, someone should; and sure, enroll. Mr. Stak is the only other student, out of the thousands enrolled, who I know of that posts here.
Yes, read from the beginning. A huge amount of data here.
Yeah, what impressive is it hits all the way around. It's not just the language is dead-on Nephi talking, but the themes are also dead on. To me, the themes are more interesting than the word hits themselves.
I think so too, because themes can be lifted whole cloth by Joseph and then a little here added, something there deleted, but the overall theme is there in tact. Besides, it fills a book much faster having themes to work from rather than just specific phrases.
Dr CamNC4Me
"Dr. Peterson and his Callithumpian cabal of BYU idiots have been marginalized by their own inevitable irrelevancy defending a fraud."
lostindc wrote:just in case this is the "smoking gun" I want it know to my friends and family that I witnessed this quickly develop.
I was here.
If not, then oh well.
There is no smoking gun and never will be. Sure, you and I probably see certain things in Mormonism as being obvious smoking guns, but it really doesn't matter. In matters of religious faith, there are no smoking guns.
lostindc wrote:just in case this is the "smoking gun" I want it know to my friends and family that I witnessed this quickly develop.
I was here.
If not, then oh well.
There is no smoking gun and never will be. Sure, you and I probably see certain things in Mormonism as being obvious smoking guns, but it really doesn't matter. In matters of religious faith, there are no smoking guns.
you're most likely right. This text has sent a lot of folks clamouring. The MD&Ds board is starting to discuss.
Yep. It's been interesting to see the responses, especially the ones that say, Of course the Book of Mormon mimics the Bible; no one said it didn't, and no one has argued that it's unique. Well, yes, they have.