Possible Modern Source for the Book of Mormon

[_Tim the Enchanter]

Probably just coincidence that an ancient American Hebrew prophet and Hunt reach the same theological conclusion about innocent people being burned to death by the bad guys.

Funny how many coincidences there are.

[_Kishkumen]

What makes the hypothesis that the LW influenced the Book of Mormon so powerful at this point is the confluence of evidence pointing in this direction. Thus far all the apologists have been able to do is isolate this factor or that and try to chip away at it. The problem is that when one looks at it the whole picture, the hypothesis still looks powerful despite the fairly tepid arguments apologists have brought forward.

Is it the case that one can find parallels by searching through lots of texts?

Duh!

The point is that, having done that, the Late War emerges as a very close match to the Book of Mormon. And, other texts, even ones formerly assumed to be influences on the Book of Mormon, have far fewer linguistic overlaps.

Is it the case that both the Book of Mormon and the Late War are mimicking KJV English?

Yes! The Late War, however, doesn't just mimic KJV language; it theologizes history. Both texts, in fact, theologize history. The key difference is that one text is theologizing recent history, while the other is fabricating an ancient history that is heavily theological in its construction.

Naturally, the author of the Book of Mormon had more freedom to conform his pseudo-history to a theological pattern. The LW is somewhat more constrained by the fact that his history concerns real events in the recent past that others had expounded upon in their own histories. Nevertheless, one can see the influence of certain passages of the LW's account of real events in the fictional history of the Book of Mormon.

I also agree with others on this thread who observe that the chronological and geographical relationship between the LW and the Book of Mormon is significant. The fact that the two texts are so close to each other in time and place greatly adds to the evidence of the computer-identified parallels in language. And, as Aristotle Smith astutely observed, the proposed parallels become more interesting when one reads the two texts together.

I have a difficult time seeing how all of this could be mere chance. If I were a mathematical genius, I would attempt to come up with a formula to calculate the probability of all of these factors converging on these two texts. My guess is that the odds of the relationship between the LW and the Book of Mormon being mere chance are slim at best.

[_RT]

What makes the hypothesis that the LW influenced the Book of Mormon so powerful at this point is the confluence of evidence pointing in this direction. Thus far all the apologists have been able to do is isolate this factor or that and try to chip away at it. The problem is that when one looks at it the whole picture, the hypothesis still looks powerful despite the fairly tepid arguments apologists have brought forward.

Is it the case that one can find parallels by searching through lots of texts?

Duh!

The point is that, having done that, the Late War emerges as a very close match to the Book of Mormon. And, other texts, even ones formerly assumed to be influences on the Book of Mormon, have far fewer linguistic overlaps.

Is it the case that both the Book of Mormon and the Late War are mimicking KJV English?

Yes! The Late War, however, doesn't just mimic KJV language; it theologizes history. Both texts, in fact, theologize history. The key difference is that one text is theologizing recent history, while the other is fabricating an ancient history that is heavily theological in its construction.

Naturally, the author of the Book of Mormon had more freedom to conform his pseudo-history to a theological pattern. The LW is somewhat more constrained by the fact that his history concerns real events in the recent past that others had expounded upon in their own histories. Nevertheless, one can see the influence of certain passages of the LW's account of real events in the fictional history of the Book of Mormon.

I also agree with others on this thread who observe that the chronological and geographical relationship between the LW and the Book of Mormon is significant. The fact that the two texts are so close to each other in time and place greatly adds to the evidence of the computer-identified parallels in language. And, as Aristotle Smith astutely observed, the proposed parallels become more interesting when one reads the two texts together.

I have a difficult time seeing how all of this could be mere chance. If I were a mathematical genius, I would attempt to come up with a formula to calculate the probability of all of these factors converging on these two texts. My guess is that the odds of the relationship between the LW and the Book of Mormon being mere chance are slim at best.

Well said Kishkumen. One could focus on an individual parallel and emphasize its peculiarities and uniqueness with respect to its narrative counterpart to no end. That depends simply on the ingenuity of the reader and what he/she finds in the text. But it's the bigger picture that matters and the statistical improbability of finding so many close parallels in two texts.

[_canadaduane]

I have gone back over the 4-gram data and I believe it is compatible with Mosiah priority. So a little speculation here, as the Late War influence is waning by 1 Nephi, could very well be room for 1 Napoleon. Maybe Duane can publish those 4-grams on their blog since he's lurking...;)

Published. (just the rarest of the First Book of Napoleon 4-grams). See http://askreality.com/hidden-in-plain-s ... on-phrases

[Anonymous]

To me, the textual parallels, the similar bibical style, the Late War's location at a time and place where Joseph Smith was located, the Late War's intended use in schools at a time when Joseph Smith was of school age, all combine to make a very compelling case that the Late War was a direct influence on the Book of Mormon.

This sounds convincing enough until you look more closely at each element. The textual parallels, though numerous, are not particularly strong. Both books adopt a style that imitates the KJV, but The Late War clearly belongs within the genre of American pseudobiblical writing (and closely adheres to that genre's conventions) whereas the Book of Mormon is a much more awkward fit. Finally, The Late War was not written to be used in schools and there's no evidence that it ever was. It seems to have been largely a vanity project of the author's and does not appear to have found a wide readership. Furthermore, Joseph Smith had only rudimentary formal schooling and no one remembered him as a bookworm. Isaac Hale found him "not very well educated" when he met him at the end of 1825 and this seems to have been the universal opinion of those who knew him in the 1820s. As Richard Bushman notes, if Joseph Smith was voraciously consuming books during this period—particularly obscure, little-read ones—he did so without anyone knowing it.

[_Tim the Enchanter]

This sounds convincing enough until you look more closely at each element.

We see it differently. I'm okay with that. To me, there is a lot of smoke that when cleared away I expect would reveal a fire.

[_Nevo]

Published. (just the rarest of the First Book of Napoleon 4-grams). See http://askreality.com/hidden-in-plain-s ... on-phrases

By the way, does anyone have a theory as to how an obscure political satire written by a Scottish solicitor (apparently for the amusement of himself and friends) found its way across the Atlantic and into Joseph Smith's hands? As far as I know, Joseph wasn't a collector of Napoleonica.

[_Kishkumen]

This sounds convincing enough until you look more closely at each element. The textual parallels, though numerous, are not particularly strong. Both books adopt a style that imitates the KJV, but The Late War clearly belongs within the genre of American pseudobiblical writing (and closely adheres to that genre's conventions) whereas the Book of Mormon is much more awkward fit. Finally, The Late War was not written to be used in schools and there's no evidence that it ever was. It seems to have been largely a vanity project of the author's and does not appear to have found a wide readership. Furthermore, Joseph Smith had only rudimentary formal schooling and no one remembered him as a bookworm. Isaac Hale found him "not very well educated" when he met him at the end of 1825 and this seems to have been the universal opinion of those who knew him in the 1820s. As Richard Bushman notes, if Joseph Smith was voraciously consuming books during this period—particularly obscure, little-read ones—he did so without anyone knowing it.

Nevo, your posts on this topic are uncharacteristically poor. The simple fact of the matter is that you have no idea who owned the LW or read it. The book was commended for the purpose of teaching young people to love to read the Bible. Whether Joseph Smith attended a school where the LW was on the reading list or not is unimportant. Isaac Hale's general impression of Smith's education is also unimpressive counter evidence. What was Hale's standard? Do you know? And, as far as Smith's appetite for books, the presence of LW in the list of books he had read is all that is needed for it to have been a direct influence on the Book of Mormon according to my running hypothesis. Exactly how unlikely do you think that is?

I don't think it is unlikely or unreasonable at all.

Finally, you have not taken into account my point regarding the theologization of history, i.e., that it is not just the use of Biblical language that the two books have in common. They also seem to share a common viewpoint about the theological significance of historical events.

[_canadaduane]

Finally, The Late War was not written to be used in schools and there's no evidence that it ever was.

Did you read the title page of the 3rd edition?



Whether or not it was *actually* used in schools is a subject for further study. But it was clearly intended for schools. In New York. Circa 1817.

[_Kishkumen]

Geez, Nevo. Really.