Bazooka wrote:[b]Do you think the Christians in the Philippines needed the trial of this devastation for their faith, trust and understanding to grow?
This isn't going away....
I believe everyone of God's children experiences growth in their faith through adversity, and I also feel that others are drawn to the Lord by adversity. The Lord allows adversity but Satan is the author of it.
So you're saying your Lord could choose to prevent Satan from authoring adversity, but it suits His purpose not to. In other words, your Lord approves of what Satan does because it gets Him what He wants.
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
LittleNipper wrote:I believe everyone of God's children experiences growth in their faith through adversity, and I also feel that others are drawn to the Lord by adversity. The Lord allows adversity but Satan is the author of it.
So you're saying your Lord could choose to prevent Satan from authoring adversity, but it suits His purpose not to. In other words, your Lord approves of what Satan does because it gets Him what He wants.
In order. Unlikely, yes, and not necessarily
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
LittleNipper wrote:I believe everyone of God's children experiences growth in their faith through adversity, and I also feel that others are drawn to the Lord by adversity. The Lord allows adversity but Satan is the author of it.
So you're saying your Lord could choose to prevent Satan from authoring adversity, but it suits His purpose not to. In other words, your Lord approves of what Satan does because it gets Him what He wants.
I am saying that the Lord sees the BIG ETERNAL PICTURE. You only see what is important to you here and how.
Bazooka wrote:So you're saying your Lord could choose to prevent Satan from authoring adversity, but it suits His purpose not to. In other words, your Lord approves of what Satan does because it gets Him what He wants.
In order. Unlikely, yes, and not necessarily
The wages of SIN is DEATH. But the GIFT of GOD is eternal life.
Joshua 1:1-18 With the death of Moses God speaks to Joshua and tells him to get moving --- take the people over the Jordan & into the land of promise. Wherever you walk belongs to you --- from the wilderness and Lebanon to the Phrath River, all the Hittites' land to the "Mediterranean Sea." There is no man presently above Joshua as was true of Moses. God will not fail him or forsake him. be strong and courageous, for thou -- thou dost cause this people to inherit the land which I have sworn to their fathers to give to them. But Joshua must be strong and very courageous, to follow all the law God gave Moses and study it. And Joshua commands the tribe leaders to tell the Israelites to gather what is needed for in 3 days they are all going to pass over the Jordan to take over the land. And to the Reubenite, and to the Gadite, and to the half of the tribe of Manasseh --- Joshua reminded them of their promise to God and Moses. There wives, infants, and substance will stay with the land they were already given. However, the men by groups of fifty will march before their fellow Israelites and fight alongside them, until they have possess all the land God promised. And they fully agreed with Joshua. And any man who provokes Joshua, and doesn't listen, is to be put to death. Joshua must stick with it.
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1 And it cometh to pass after the death of Moses, servant of Jehovah, that Jehovah speaketh unto Joshua son of Nun, minister of Moses, saying,
2 `Moses my servant is dead, and now, rise, pass over this Jordan, thou, and all this people, unto the land which I am giving to them, to the sons of Israel.
3 `Every place on which the sole of your foot treadeth, to you I have given it, as I have spoken unto Moses.
4 From this wilderness and Lebanon, and unto the great river, the river Phrath, all the land of the Hittites, and unto the great Sea -- the going in of the sun -- is your border.
5 `No man doth station himself before thee all days of thy life; as I have been with Moses, I am with thee, I do not fail thee, nor forsake thee;
6 be strong and courageous, for thou -- thou dost cause this people to inherit the land which I have sworn to their fathers to give to them.
7 `Only, be strong and very courageous, to observe to do according to all the law which Moses My servant commanded thee; thou dost not turn aside from it right or left, so that thou dost act wisely in every [place] whither thou goest;
8 the book of this law doth not depart out of thy mouth, and thou hast meditated in it by day and by night, so that thou dost observe to do according to all that is written in it, for then thou dost cause thy way to prosper, and then thou dost act wisely.
9 `Have not I commanded thee? be strong and courageous; be not terrified nor affrighted, for with thee [is] Jehovah thy God in every [place] whither thou goest.'
10 And Joshua commandeth the authorities of the people, saying,
11 `Pass over into the midst of the camp, and command the people, saying, Prepare for yourselves provision, for within three days ye are passing over this Jordan, to go in to possess the land which Jehovah your God is giving to you to possess it.'
12 And to the Reubenite, and to the Gadite, and to the half of the tribe of Manasseh, hath Joshua spoken, saying,
13 `Remember the word which Moses, servant of Jehovah, commanded you, saying, Jehovah your God is giving rest to you, and He hath given to you this land;
14 your wives, your infants, and your substance, abide in the land which Moses hath given to you beyond the Jordan, and ye -- ye pass over by fifties, before your brethren, all the mighty ones of valour, and have helped them,
15 till that Jehovah giveth rest to your brethren as to yourselves, and they have possessed, even they, the land which Jehovah your God is giving to them; then ye have turned back to the land of your possession, and have possessed it, which Moses, servant of Jehovah, hath given to you beyond the Jordan, [at] the sun-rising.'
16 And they answer Joshua, saying, `All that thou hast commanded us we do; and unto every [place] whither thou dost send us, we go;
17 according to all that we hearkened unto Moses [in], so we hearken unto thee; surely Jehovah thy God is with thee as He hath been with Moses.
18 Any man who doth provoke thy mouth, and doth not hear thy words, in all that thou dost command him, is put to death; only, be strong and courageous.'
Bazooka wrote:So you're saying your Lord could choose to prevent Satan from authoring adversity, but it suits His purpose not to. In other words, your Lord approves of what Satan does because it gets Him what He wants.
I am saying that the Lord sees the BIG ETERNAL PICTURE. You only see what is important to you here and how.
So you agree. The Lord, as a result of seeing the Big Picture, chooses not to prevent Satan from authoring adversity because it suits His long term purposes. In other words, your Lord approves of what Satan does because he plays an integral part in your Lords plan. Without Satan your Lord is unable to deliver His plan. This makes Satan part of the Home Team if you consider his role as part of the BIG ETERNAL PICTURE because he facilitates what the Lord needs us (wants us) to experience.
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
Bazooka wrote:So you're saying your Lord could choose to prevent Satan from authoring adversity, but it suits His purpose not to. In other words, your Lord approves of what Satan does because it gets Him what He wants.
LittleNipper wrote:I am saying that the Lord sees the BIG ETERNAL PICTURE. You only see what is important to you here and how.
Bazooka wrote:So you agree. The Lord, as a result of seeing the Big Picture, chooses not to prevent Satan from authoring adversity because it suits His long term purposes. In other words, your Lord approves of what Satan does because he plays an integral part in your Lords plan. Without Satan your Lord is unable to deliver His plan. This makes Satan part of the Home Team if you consider his role as part of the BIG ETERNAL PICTURE because he facilitates what the Lord needs us (wants us) to experience.
As one of the posters - with whom I don't correspond - wrote, "I lack the English skills necessary", so, with my simple words and grammar, the lord (Lord, LORD) hired the satan for the dirty work. As Al Capone, who didn't executed the rival gang members - in person. He had his own little satans.
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco - To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
LittleNipper wrote:I am saying that the Lord sees the BIG ETERNAL PICTURE. You only see what is important to you here and how.
So you agree. The Lord, as a result of seeing the Big Picture, chooses not to prevent Satan from authoring adversity because it suits His long term purposes. In other words, your Lord approves of what Satan does because he plays an integral part in your Lords plan. Without Satan your Lord is unable to deliver His plan. This makes Satan part of the Home Team if you consider his role as part of the BIG ETERNAL PICTURE because he facilitates what the Lord needs us (wants us) to experience.
OUR LORD does exactly what is necessary for the good of everyone who chooses to place their faith and trust in HIM. People who choose to not accept Jesus as the Christ (God with US) are under the domaination of Satan. The Fall is the result of Satan making a choice to attempt to become GOD and mans desire to side with Satan. Adam and Eve would have lived eternally perfect if they had only not eaten of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Satan lied to them by saying that they would become as GOD as well --- possessing this knowledge.
1 And Joshua son of Nun sendeth from Shittim, two men, spies, silently, saying, `Go, see the land -- and Jericho;' and they go and come into the house of a woman, a harlot, and her name [is] Rahab, and they lie down there.
2 And it is told to the king of Jericho, saying, `Lo, men have come in hither to-night, from the sons of Israel, to search the land.
3 And the king of Jericho sendeth unto Rahab, saying, `Bring out the men who are coming in unto thee, who have come into thy house, for to search the whole of the land they have come in.
4 And the woman taketh the two men, and hideth them, and saith thus: `The men came in unto me, and I have not known whence they [are];
5 and it cometh to pass -- the gate is to [be] shut -- in the dark, and the men have gone out; I have not known whither the men have gone; pursue ye, hasten after them, for ye overtake them;'
6 and she hath caused them to go up on the roof, and hideth them with the flax wood, which is arranged for her on the roof.
7 And the men have pursued after them the way of the Jordan, by the fords, and the gate they have shut afterwards, when the pursuers have gone out after them.
8 And -- before they lie down -- she hath gone up unto them on the roof,
9 and she saith unto the men, `I have known that Jehovah hath given to you the land, and that your terror hath fallen upon us, and that all the inhabitants of the land have melted at your presence.
10 `For we have heard how Jehovah dried up the waters of the Red Sea at your presence, in your going out of Egypt, and that which ye have done to the two kings of the Amorite who [are] beyond the Jordan; to Sihon and to Og whom ye devoted.
11 And we hear, and melt doth our heart, and there hath not stood any more spirit in [any] man, from your presence, for Jehovah your God, He [is] God in the heavens above, and on the earth beneath.
12 `And now, swear ye, I pray you, to me by Jehovah -- because I have done with you kindness -- that ye have done, even ye, kindness with the house of my father, and have given to me a true token,
13 and have kept alive my father, and my mother, and my brothers, and my sisters, and all that they have, and have delivered our souls from death.'
14 And the men say to her, `Our soul for yours -- to die; if ye declare not this our matter, then it hath been, in Jehovah's giving to us this land, that we have done with thee kindness and truth.'
15 And she causeth them to go down by a rope through the window, for her house [is] in the side of the wall, and in the wall she [is] dwelling;
16 and she saith to them, `To the mountain go, lest the pursuers come upon you; and ye have been hidden there three days till the turning back of the pursuers, and afterwards ye go on your way.'
17 And the men say unto her, `We are acquitted of this thine oath which thou hast caused us to swear:
18 lo, we are coming into the land, this line of scarlet thread thou dost bind to the window by which thou hast caused us to go down, and thy father, and thy mother, and thy brethren, and all the house of thy father thou dost gather unto thee, to the house;
19 and it hath been, any one who goeth out from the doors of thy house without, his blood [is] on his head, and we are innocent; and any one who is with thee in the house, his blood [is] on our head, if a hand is on him;
20 and if thou declare this our matter, then we have been acquitted from thine oath which thou hast caused us to swear.'
21 And she saith, `According unto your words, so it [is];' and she sendeth them away, and they go; and she bindeth the scarlet line to the window.
22 And they go, and come in to the mountain, and abide there three days until the pursuers have turned back; and the pursuers seek in all the way, and have not found.
23 And the two men turn back, and come down from the hill, and pass over, and come in unto Joshua son of Nun, and recount to him all that hath come upon them;
24 and they say unto Joshua, `Surely Jehovah hath given into our hand all the land; and also, all the inhabitants of the land have melted at our presence.'
Joshua 2:1-24 Joshua secretly sends out two spies from their camp at Acacia Grove. He instructed them to Scout out the land on the other side of the Jordan River, especially around Jericho. The two spies came to the house of a prostitute named Rahab and stayed there that night. Someone informs the king of Jericho and the king sends a message to Rahab to bring out the men who have come into her house. Rahab hid the two men, but replied that the men were there earlier, but didn’t know where they were from. They left the town at dusk, as the gates were about to close and don’t know where they went. Rahab suggests that they hurry and they should catch up with them. So the kings men ride off and the gates of the city are closed behind them. Now actually, she had hidden the spies beneath bundles of flax she had laid out on her roof.
Before the spies went to sleep that night, Rahab went up on the roof to talk with them. She fully knows that God has given Israel this land. Everyone is shear terror of Israel. For they have heard how the Lord made a dry path for them through the Red Sea when they left Egypt 40 years earlier. They know what Israel did to Sihon and Og, the two Amorite kings east of the Jordan River, whose people were completely destroyed. No wonder hearts have turned to butter. No one has the courage to fight after hearing such things. The Lord God is the supreme God of the heavens above and the earth below. Rahab asks that they be kind to her and her family since she helped them and wants a guarantee of protection. The spies offer their own lives as the guarantee for this safety the men agreed. Since Rahab’s house was built into the town wall, she let them down by a rope through the window and tells them to run to the hill country and hide there for three days from the men searching for them.
Before leaving, the spies told her, “We will be bound by the oath we have taken only if you follow these instructions. When we come into the land, you must leave this scarlet rope hanging from the window through which you let us down. And all your family members—your father, mother, brothers, and all your relatives—must be here inside the house. If they go out into the street and are killed, it will not be our fault. But if anyone lays a hand on people inside this house, we will accept the responsibility for their death. If you betray us, however, we are not bound by this oath in any way.”
Rahab accepts the terms and left the scarlet rope in the window. The two spies went to the hill country and came down after 3 days, crossed the Jordan River, and reported to Joshua all that had happened to them. They said that the inhabitance are afraid and the Lord has given the land to Israel.
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1 And Joshua son of Nun sendeth from Shittim, two men, spies, silently, saying, `Go, see the land -- and Jericho;' and they go and come into the house of a woman, a harlot, and her name [is] Rahab, and they lie down there.
2 And it is told to the king of Jericho, saying, `Lo, men have come in hither to-night, from the sons of Israel, to search the land.
3 And the king of Jericho sendeth unto Rahab, saying, `Bring out the men who are coming in unto thee, who have come into thy house, for to search the whole of the land they have come in.
4 And the woman taketh the two men, and hideth them, and saith thus: `The men came in unto me, and I have not known whence they [are];
5 and it cometh to pass -- the gate is to [be] shut -- in the dark, and the men have gone out; I have not known whither the men have gone; pursue ye, hasten after them, for ye overtake them;'
6 and she hath caused them to go up on the roof, and hideth them with the flax wood, which is arranged for her on the roof.
7 And the men have pursued after them the way of the Jordan, by the fords, and the gate they have shut afterwards, when the pursuers have gone out after them.
8 And -- before they lie down -- she hath gone up unto them on the roof,
9 and she saith unto the men, `I have known that Jehovah hath given to you the land, and that your terror hath fallen upon us, and that all the inhabitants of the land have melted at your presence.
10 `For we have heard how Jehovah dried up the waters of the Red Sea at your presence, in your going out of Egypt, and that which ye have done to the two kings of the Amorite who [are] beyond the Jordan; to Sihon and to Og whom ye devoted.
11 And we hear, and melt doth our heart, and there hath not stood any more spirit in [any] man, from your presence, for Jehovah your God, He [is] God in the heavens above, and on the earth beneath.
12 `And now, swear ye, I pray you, to me by Jehovah -- because I have done with you kindness -- that ye have done, even ye, kindness with the house of my father, and have given to me a true token,
13 and have kept alive my father, and my mother, and my brothers, and my sisters, and all that they have, and have delivered our souls from death.'
14 And the men say to her, `Our soul for yours -- to die; if ye declare not this our matter, then it hath been, in Jehovah's giving to us this land, that we have done with thee kindness and truth.'
15 And she causeth them to go down by a rope through the window, for her house [is] in the side of the wall, and in the wall she [is] dwelling;
16 and she saith to them, `To the mountain go, lest the pursuers come upon you; and ye have been hidden there three days till the turning back of the pursuers, and afterwards ye go on your way.'
17 And the men say unto her, `We are acquitted of this thine oath which thou hast caused us to swear:
18 lo, we are coming into the land, this line of scarlet thread thou dost bind to the window by which thou hast caused us to go down, and thy father, and thy mother, and thy brethren, and all the house of thy father thou dost gather unto thee, to the house;
19 and it hath been, any one who goeth out from the doors of thy house without, his blood [is] on his head, and we are innocent; and any one who is with thee in the house, his blood [is] on our head, if a hand is on him;
20 and if thou declare this our matter, then we have been acquitted from thine oath which thou hast caused us to swear.'
21 And she saith, `According unto your words, so it [is];' and she sendeth them away, and they go; and she bindeth the scarlet line to the window.
22 And they go, and come in to the mountain, and abide there three days until the pursuers have turned back; and the pursuers seek in all the way, and have not found.
23 And the two men turn back, and come down from the hill, and pass over, and come in unto Joshua son of Nun, and recount to him all that hath come upon them;
24 and they say unto Joshua, `Surely Jehovah hath given into our hand all the land; and also, all the inhabitants of the land have melted at our presence.'