Tim the Enchanter wrote:I love, love, love (that's three loves, which signifies extreme imporance, like I've been told wo, wo, wo does ) the story of Abinadi. To me, it is a powerful story of someone standing up for what they believe in, despite the consequences of doing so. Part of what I love about the story is that in the text, there is no indication that Abinadi ever realized the impact he had on Alma (the priest of King Noah who believed Abinadi's words). Sometimes in life, like Abinadi, we don't know the impact we will have on others. We may, like Abinadi, die not knowing the impact we've had on the life of another. And yet, though I believe the Book of Mormon is as authentic as a 3 dollar bill, the story of Abinadi reminds me not be afraid to stand up for what I believe in even when it seems like it may fall on deaf ears, and even when there may be drastic consequences.
Nicely put, Tim. Like you, I was struck by Abinadi's lack of awareness regarding his positive influence on Alma.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
Bazooka wrote:I'm merely asking if there's something that once caused you doubt which deeper study has caused you to reverse your view about that specific doubt to the point where it became a reinforcement of truth
I had a long list of Book of Mormon issues that have caused me grief over the years and the list disappeared when I changed tabs in Google Chrome on iPad. Crap. I don't want to make the list again right now. Dancing With the Stars is on. The simple answer is "No". The issues, on the whole, are still issues. This being the case, however, doesn't discount what I said previously in regards to looking at the Book of Mormon with different eyes than I did for a number of years.
Madison54 wrote:I had spiritual experiences when I was active and I continue to have spiritual experiences now that I no longer attend or believe. One has nothing to do with the other.
Do you honestly believe that a person has to be an active, believing Mormon to be spiritual or have spiritual experiences?
I think that life can be a spiritual experience on one level. We can be enchanted with nature and other aspects of beauty that life can offer us. But I have never replicated the spiritual experience that I had when I prayed about the Book of Mormon. That experience remains exceptional. Not to mention other spiritual experiences when I was active in the church to a lesser degree. These experiences I can never deny.
The foundational claims of the LDS church still stand. Nothing has changed. For many on this forum, the church brought them happiness, peace, comfort and a great deal of love. It also brought them a sense of togetherness as a community.
I can understand if it all was proven false by good conclusive evidence such as a manuscript of the Book of Mormon written in sidney's and Joseph's hand. But...we can only make a value judgement about it all. And yet, for those people who prayed about the book, and received a strong spiritual witness, have the most difficult time if they begin to doubt or have a more difficult time throwing it all out with the garbage.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
Uncle Ed wrote:HP definitely borrows from "scripture", since all heroic literature does the same. The Book of Mormon begins by borrowing from scripture, the 600 BCE setting of apostate Jerusalem, then soon starts quoting from the Bible and doesn't stop till the end. LOTR, Star Wars, Asimov's books, Hubbard, Heinlein, the list is very big. Rowling is just a come-lately member of that club. And yes, if the literature is inspiring to make the reader a better person then it works exactly like scripture is supposed to....
But there is a difference. Inside the Book of Mormon there is a promise that if one prays about its truthfulness, the holy ghost will bring confirm it. That is quite a claim to make for any fraudster who may have wrote it. Unless of course, the book is what it claims to be.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
Uncle Ed wrote:HP definitely borrows from "scripture", since all heroic literature does the same. The Book of Mormon begins by borrowing from scripture, the 600 BCE setting of apostate Jerusalem, then soon starts quoting from the Bible and doesn't stop till the end. LOTR, Star Wars, Asimov's books, Hubbard, Heinlein, the list is very big. Rowling is just a come-lately member of that club. And yes, if the literature is inspiring to make the reader a better person then it works exactly like scripture is supposed to....
But there is a difference. Inside the Book of Mormon there is a promise that if one prays about its truthfulness, the holy ghost will bring confirm it. That is quite a claim to make for any fraudster who may have wrote it. Unless of course, the book is what it claims to be.
And anybody else who also believes in personal answers to prayer (billions of others not Mormon) will get answers to like-questions, even mutually exclusive questions. How do you answer someone who claims that they prayed to know if the Book of Mormon is NOT true (as the book actually says), and God manifested the truth that the Book of Mormon is not true? It might not be true for them, and it might be true for others. We have thousands upon thousands even millions of religions, after all....
A man should never step a foot into the field, But have his weapons to hand: He knows not when he may need arms, Or what menace meet on the road. - Hávamál 38
why me wrote: But there is a difference. Inside the Book of Mormon there is a promise that if one prays about its truthfulness, the holy ghost will bring confirm it. That is quite a claim to make for any fraudster who may have wrote it. Unless of course, the book is what it claims to be.
Only those religions that are what they claim to be tell prospective adherents to pray about its truthfulness so they can know for themselves.
Uncle Ed wrote:We have thousands upon thousands even millions of religions, after all....
And there is one of them TRUE.
A miracle.
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco - To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
Kishkumen wrote:Although others may object to my eligibility to respond to the question, I still cherish many of the Book of Mormon's teachings. The highlight for me is King Benjamin's speech. Especially this part:
17 And behold, I tell you these things that ye may learn wisdom; that ye may learn that when ye are in the service of your fellow beings ye are only in the service of your God.
To this day that scripture resonates in my mind as one that inspires me to try to do better in my interactions with others. Yes, I fail, but that was not the question. The question regarded our personal esteem for the Book of Mormon.
Hi Kish!
I just now saw and read your post.
I love this scripture and as you stated, it still resonates with me. I don't need to open my Book of Mormon to read it as it's one I have ingrained in my memory (along with many others) and these are words I try to live by.
Although I'm no longer active, I have tried to take the good from my many years as a believing Mormon. I know I cannot go back, but I can still cherish many of the teachings and scriptures.
I love this scripture and as you stated, it still resonates with me. I don't need to open my Book of Mormon to read it as it's one I have ingrained in my memory (along with many others) and these are words I try to live by.
Although I'm no longer active, I have tried to take the good from my many years as a believing Mormon. I know I cannot go back, but I can still cherish many of the teachings and scriptures.
Thanks for posting this.
Thanks for your kind response, Madison54.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
I love this scripture and as you stated, it still resonates with me. I don't need to open my Book of Mormon to read it as it's one I have ingrained in my memory (along with many others) and these are words I try to live by.
Although I'm no longer active, I have tried to take the good from my many years as a believing Mormon. I know I cannot go back, but I can still cherish many of the teachings and scriptures.
Thanks for posting this.
I always liked it. It did remind me of another at the time I thought was so good and now see it as bad. 1 Nephi 3:7
I think the underlying issue here is not so much about whether the Book of Mormon has material that can inspire the reader. I think it has several examples of that, although nothing unique to it. I think the issue for many surrounds the idea that the Book of Mormon is not something a person could have created. The late war is just another book I think suggests it is not really of divine origin. I think for now the most devastating thing it does to LDS apologia is the many arguments that were used as evidence of the Book of Mormon being ancient, but are found in the late war. It doesn't just destroy these arguments, but destroys the credibility of apologists who have been making them. How many other arguments are made using similar methodology that many have questioned as Parallelomania?
) the story of Abinadi. To me, it is a powerful story of someone standing up for what they believe in, despite the consequences of doing so. Part of what I love about the story is that in the text, there is no indication that Abinadi ever realized the impact he had on Alma (the priest of King Noah who believed Abinadi's words). Sometimes in life, like Abinadi, we don't know the impact we will have on others. We may, like Abinadi, die not knowing the impact we've had on the life of another. And yet, though I believe the Book of Mormon is as authentic as a 3 dollar bill, the story of Abinadi reminds me not be afraid to stand up for what I believe in even when it seems like it may fall on deaf ears, and even when there may be drastic consequences.