Bible verse by verse

[Guest]

You are nothing but a rake. The fact that people grow old and feeble and die is 'Euthanasia' according to your train of thought? God is LORD. Euthanasia is when someone plays at being GOD. People will die, and die because there is sin in the world. The blessing is that we are not made to live forever in such a state of depravity. And until you understand this point, you will continue to think that you are more moral than God.

Good luck showing us where I allude to that conclusion.

I don't think I'm more moral than God.
But I am more moral than the version of God portrayed in the Bible.
I'd say I was slightly more consistent too.

But feel free to explain how the flood wasn't murder of innocents....

Here's an example of the character of the God of the Old Testament:

1 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
2 Command the children of Israel, that they put out of the camp every leper, and every one that hath can issue, and whosoever is defiled by the dead:
3 Both male and female shall ye put out, without the camp shall ye put them; that they defile not their camps, in the midst whereof I dwell.
4 And the children of Israel did so, and put them out without the camp: as the Lord spake unto Moses, so did the children of Israel.

(Numbers 5)

Do you not imagine that these lepers got their infections from doing what is right or doing what is wrong? And the AIDS epidemic... Is that the result of people doing what is holy or unholy? God was protecting the people from themselves. This was not the age of God's grace but His justice. And were not lepers of the Bible healed and were they then welcomed back into the "camp?" You are one sided. And NO you nor anyone else is more moral then the GOD of the Bible --- either Old or New Testament. You should thank the Lord that you were born in the Age of Grace; however, this Age too will end someday ------- possibly very soon.

[_LittleNipper]

Joshua 6:1-27 Now the gates of Jericho were shut because the Israelites were camped close by. No one left or came in. The Lord said to Joshua, “See, I have given Jericho into you, with its ruler and military. Walk around the city. Have all your warriors go around the city once. Do this for six days. Seven religious leaders will carry seven rams’ horns, walking in front of the Ark. Then on the seventh day you will walk around the city seven times. And the religious leaders will blow horns. When you hear the long sound of the ram’s horn, all the people should call out with a loud noise. The wall of the city will fall to the ground. And then all the people will take the city.

Joshua the son of Nun called the religious leaders. The men ready for battle went in front of the religious leaders who blew the horns. The other soldiers brought up the rear, while the horns sounded without stopping. Joshua told the people, “Do not call out or let your voice be heard. Not a word should come from your mouth until the day I tell you to call out. Then you must call out.” So he had the Ark taken around the city once. Then they returned to the tents and stayed there through the night.

Joshua got up early in the morning. And the religious leaders took up the ark... The second day they walked around the city once. Then they returned to the tents, as on day one. They did this for six days.

On the seventh day they got up early at the rising of the sun. They walked around the city in the same way, but on that day they walked around the city seven times. The seventh time, when the religious leaders blew their horns, Joshua said to the people, “Call out! For the Lord has given you the city. The city and all that is in it must be destroyed because everything in it belongs to the Lord. Only Rahab, the woman who sells the use of her body, and all who are with her in the house will live, because she hid the men we sent. Do not hang around the things that are to be destroyed. Or while you give them up to be destroyed, you might desire them, and make the camp of Israel sinful also, and bring trouble on it. All the silver and gold and objects of brass and iron are holy to the Lord. They will go into the store-house of the Lord."

So the people called out and the religious leaders blew the horns. When the people heard the sound of the horns, they called out even louder. And the surrounding wall fell to the ground. All the people went straight in and took the city. They destroyed everything in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and all the animals, with the sword.

Joshua told the two men who had spied out the land, to go into the house of the prostitute. Bring out the woman and all who are with her, as you promised. So the young men who had spied out the land went in, and brought out Rahab and her father and mother and brothers and all she had. They brought out all of her family and took them outside the tents of Israel. Then they destroyed the city with fire, and all that was in it. Only the silver and gold and objects of brass and iron they put into the store-house of the holy tent of the Lord. Joshua saved the life of Rahab, the woman who sold the use of her body, and those of her father’s house and all she had. She lived among the Israelites from that day forward, because she hid the men Joshua had sent to spy out Jericho.

Then Joshua made a curse that the Lord might destroy the man who gets up and rebuilds this city of Jericho. With the loss of his first-born he will begin to build it. With the loss of his youngest son he will set up its gates. The Lord was with Joshua and he was respected in that area.


Young's Literal Translation (YLT)


1 (And Jericho shutteth itself up, and is shut up, because of the presence of the sons of Israel -- none going out, and none coming in;)

2 And Jehovah saith unto Joshua, `See, I have given into thy hand Jericho and its king -- mighty ones of valour,

3 and ye have compassed the city -- all the men of battle -- going round the city once; thus thou dost six days;

4 and seven priests do bear seven trumpets of the jubilee before the ark, and on the seventh day ye compass the city seven times, and the priests blow with the trumpets,

5 and it hath been, in the prolongation of the horn of the jubilee, in your hearing the voice of the trumpet, all the people shout -- a great shout, and the wall of the city hath fallen under it, and the people have gone up, each over-against him.'

6 And Joshua son of Nun calleth unto the priests, and saith unto them, `Bear ye the ark of the covenant, and seven priests do bear seven trumpets of the jubilee before the ark of Jehovah;'

7 and He said unto the people, `Pass over, and compass the city, and he who is armed doth pass over before the ark of Jehovah.'

8 And it cometh to pass, when Joshua speaketh unto the people, that the seven priests bearing seven trumpets of the jubilee before Jehovah have passed over and blown with the trumpets, and the ark of the covenant of Jehovah is going after them;

9 and he who is armed is going before the priests blowing the trumpets, and he who is gathering up is going after the ark, going on and blowing with the trumpets;

10 and the people hath Joshua commanded, saying, `Ye do not shout, nor cause your voice to be heard, nor doth there go out from your mouth a word, till the day of my saying unto you, Shout ye -- then ye have shouted.'

11 And the ark of Jehovah doth compass the city, going round once, and they come into the camp, and lodge in the camp.

12 And Joshua riseth early in the morning, and the priests bear the ark of Jehovah,

13 and seven priests bearing seven trumpets of the jubilee before the ark of Jehovah are walking, going on, and they have blown with the trumpets -- and he who is armed is going before them, and he who is gathering up is going behind the ark of Jehovah -- going on and blowing with the trumpets.

14 And they compass the city on the second day once, and turn back to the camp; thus they have done six days.

15 And it cometh to pass, on the seventh day, that they rise early, at the ascending of the dawn, and compass the city, according to this manner, seven times; (only, on that day they have compassed the city seven times);

16 and it cometh to pass, at the seventh time, the priests have blown with the trumpets, and Joshua saith unto the people, `Shout ye, for Jehovah hath given to you the city;

17 and the city hath been devoted, it and all that [is] in it, to Jehovah; only Rahab the harlot doth live, she and all who [are] with her in the house, for she hid the messengers whom we sent;

18 and surely ye have kept from the devoted thing, lest ye devote [yourselves], and have taken from the devoted thing, and have made the camp of Israel become a devoted thing, and have troubled it;

19 and all the silver and gold, and vessels of brass and iron, holy they [are] to Jehovah; into the treasury of Jehovah they come.'

20 And the people shout, and blow with the trumpets, and it cometh to pass when the people hear the voice of the trumpet, that the people shout -- a great shout, and the wall falleth under it, and the people goeth up into the city, each over-against him, and they capture the city;

21 and they devote all that [is] in the city, from man even unto woman, from young even unto aged, even unto ox, and sheep, and ass, by the mouth of the sword.

22 And to the two men who are spying the land Joshua said, `Go into the house of the woman, the harlot, and bring out thence the woman, and all whom she hath, as ye have sworn to her.'

23 And the young man, the spies, go in and bring out Rahab, and her father, and her mother, and her brethren, and all whom she hath; yea, all her families they have brought out, and place them at the outside of the camp of Israel.

24 And the city they have burnt with fire, and all that [is] in it; only, the silver and the gold, and the vessels of brass, and of iron, they have given [to] the treasury of the house of Jehovah;

25 and Rahab the harlot, and the house of her father, and all whom she hath, hath Joshua kept alive; and she dwelleth in the midst of Israel unto this day, for she hid the messengers whom Joshua sent to spy out Jericho.

26 And Joshua adjureth [them] at that time, saying, `Cursed [is] the man before Jehovah who raiseth up and hath built this city, [even] Jericho; in his first-born he doth lay its foundation, and in his youngest he doth set up its doors;'

27 and Jehovah is with Joshua, and his fame is in all the land.

[_Gunnar]

Do you not imagine that these lepers got their infections from doing what is right or doing what is wrong? And the AIDS epidemic... Is that that the result of people doing what is holy or unholy? God was protecting the people from themselves. This was not the age of God's grace but His justice. And were not lepers of the Bible healed and were they then welcomed back into the "camp?" You are one sided. And NO you nor anyone else is more moral then the GOD of the Bible --- either Old or New Testament. You should thank the Lord that you were born in the Age of Grace; however, this Age too will end someday ------- possibly very soon.

Are you now suggesting that leprosy and, possibly, disease in general are God's punishment for sin? If so, you are even more intolerantly ignorant and bigoted than I originally thought!

[_LittleNipper]

Do you not imagine that these lepers got their infections from doing what is right or doing what is wrong? And the AIDS epidemic... Is that that the result of people doing what is holy or unholy? God was protecting the people from themselves. This was not the age of God's grace but His justice. And were not lepers of the Bible healed and were they then welcomed back into the "camp?" You are one sided. And NO you nor anyone else is more moral then the GOD of the Bible --- either Old or New Testament. You should thank the Lord that you were born in the Age of Grace; however, this Age too will end someday ------- possibly very soon.

Are you now suggesting that leprosy and, possibly, disease in general are God's punishment for sin? If so, you are even more intolerantly ignorant and bigoted than I originally thought!

If one accepts the Genesis account, then one MUST accept that everything that goes wrong in this world is sin related. I believe that everyone eventually dies of something, unless they are raptured before their time comes. That is the direct or indirect result of sin in this world. YOUR OWN opinions seem to be founded on YOUR OWN feelings and if that is the case, then YOU are the judgmental one and not me. I also understand that perhaps you are afraid that what I say is true. I am very sorry that this makes you uncomfortable; however, you may wish to consider your own feelings and the reasons behind your own opinions further. A reality is that a drunk, does not get drunk by not drinking.... And AIDS is not generally a disease of abstinence nor marital bliss...

[_LittleNipper]

Joshua 7:1-26 But Israel violated the instructions about the things set apart for the Lord. A man named Achan stole some dedicated things. This made God angry with the Israelites. Achan was the son of Carmi, a descendant of Zimri son of Zerah, of the tribe of Judah. Joshua sent some of his men from Jericho to spy out the town of A.I., east of Bethel, near Beth-aven. When they returned, they told Joshua that there was no need for all of Israel to go up there; it shouldn't take more than two or three thousand men to attack A.I. --- as there were so few of them. So approximately 3,000 warriors were sent, but they were terribly defeated. The men of A.I. chased the Israelites from the town gate as far as the quarries, and they killed about thirty-six who were retreating down the slope. The Israelites were paralyzed with fear at this turn of events, and they lost their courage .

Joshua and the elders of Israel tore their clothing in disbelief, threw dust on their heads, and bowed face down to the ground before the Ark of the Lord until evening. Joshua cried out questioning God's will and what would be the result... The Lord told Joshua, to get up and asked why was he behaving so? God said Israel had sinned and broken the covenant! They had stolen some of the things that God commanded must be set apart for Him, and lied about it hidding the things among their own belongings. This is why the Israelites are running from their enemies in defeat. Presently, Israel itself has been set apart for destruction. God will not remain with Israel any longer unless they destroy these things that were set apart for destruction. Joshua is to command the people to purify themselves in preparation for the following day. Israel will never defeat its enemies until they remove these things from among them.

In the morning Israel must present themselves by tribes, and the Lord will point out the tribe to which the guilty man belongs. That tribe must come forward with its clans, and the Lord will point out the guilty clan. That clan will then come forward, and the Lord will point out the guilty family. Finally, each member of the guilty family must come forward one by one. The one who has stolen what was set apart for destruction will himself be burned with fire, along with everything he has, for he has broken the covenant of the Lord and has done a horrible thing in Israel.

Early the next morning Joshua brought the tribes of Israel before the Lord, and the tribe of Judah was singled out. Then the clans of Judah came forward, and the clan of Zerah was singled out. Then the families of Zerah came forward, and the family of Zimri was singled out. Every member of Zimri’s family was brought forward person by person, and Achan was singled out.

Joshua said to Achan, “My son, give glory to the Lord, the God of Israel, by telling the truth. Make your confession and tell me what you have done. Don’t hide it from me.” Achan replied, “It is true! I have sinned against the Lord, the God of Israel. Among the plunder I saw a beautiful robe from Babylon, 200 silver coins, and a bar of gold weighing more than a pound. I wanted them so much that I took them. They are hidden in the ground beneath my tent, with the silver buried deeper than the rest.”

Joshua sent some men to make a search. They ran to the tent and found the stolen goods buried as Achan had said. Joshua and all the Israelites took Achan, the silver, the robe, the bar of gold, his sons, daughters, cattle, donkeys, sheep, goats, tent, and everything he had, and they brought them to the valley of Achor. Then Joshua asked Achan why he troubled Israel. The Lord will now bring trouble against him. And all the Israelites stoned Achan and his family and burned their bodies. They piled a great heap of stones over Achan, which remains even to the writing of this scripture. That is why the place has been called the Valley of Trouble ever since. And the Lord ceased His anger.


Young's Literal Translation (YLT)


1 And the sons of Israel commit a trespass in the devoted thing, and Achan, son of Carmi, son of Zabdi, son of Zerah, of the tribe of Judah, taketh of the devoted thing, and the anger of Jehovah burneth against the sons of Israel.

2 And Joshua sendeth men from Jericho to A.I., which [is] near Beth-Aven, on the east of Bethel, and speaketh unto them, saying, `Go up and spy the land;' and the men go up and spy A.I.,

3 and they turn back unto Joshua, and say unto him, `Let not all the people go up; let about two thousand men, or about three thousand men, go up, and they smite A.I.; cause not all the people to labour thither; for they [are] few.'

4 And there go up of the people thither about three thousand men, and they flee before the men of A.I.,

5 and the men of A.I. smite of them about thirty and six men, and pursue them before the gate unto Shebarim, and they smite them in Morad; and the heart of the people is melted, and becometh water.

6 And Joshua rendeth his garments, and falleth on his face to the earth before the ark of Jehovah till the evening, he and the elders of Israel, and they cause dust to go up on their head.

7 And Joshua saith, `Ah, Lord Jehovah, why hast Thou at all caused this people to pass over the Jordan, to give us into the hand of the Amorite to destroy us? -- and oh that we had been willing -- and we dwell beyond the Jordan!

8 Oh, Lord, what do I say, after that Israel hath turned the neck before its enemies?

9 and the Canaanite and all the inhabitants of the land do hear, and have come round against us, and cut off our name out of the earth; and what dost Thou do for Thy great name?'

10 And Jehovah saith unto Joshua, `Rise for thee, why [is] this? -- thou [art] falling on thy face?

11 Israel hath sinned, and also they have transgressed My covenant which I commanded them, and also taken of the devoted thing, and also stolen, and also deceived, and also put [it] among their vessels,

12 and the sons of Israel have not been able to stand before their enemies; the neck they turn before their enemies, for they have become a devoted thing; I add not to be with you -- if ye destroy not the devoted thing out of your midst.

13 `Rise, sanctify the people, and thou hast said, Sanctify yourselves for to-morrow; for thus said Jehovah, God of Israel, A devoted thing [is] in thy midst, O Israel, thou art not able to stand before thine enemies till your turning aside of the devoted thing out of your midst;

14 and ye have been brought near in the morning by your tribes, and it hath been, the tribe which Jehovah doth capture doth draw near by families, and the family which Jehovah doth capture doth draw near by households, and the household which Jehovah doth capture doth draw near by men;

15 and it hath been, he who is captured with the devoted thing is burnt with fire, he and all that he hath, because he hath transgressed the covenant of Jehovah, and because he hath done folly in Israel.'

16 And Joshua riseth early in the morning, and bringeth Israel near by its tribes, and the tribe of Judah is captured;

17 and he bringeth near the family of Judah, and he captureth the family of the Zarhite; and he bringeth near the family of the Zarhite by men, and Zabdi is captured;

18 and he bringeth near his household by men, and Achan -- son of Carmi, son of Zabdi, son of Zerah, of the tribe of Judah -- is captured.

19 And Joshua saith unto Achan, `My son, put, I pray thee, honour on Jehovah, God of Israel, and give to Him thanks, and declare, I pray thee, to me, what thou hast done -- hide not from me.'

20 And Achan answereth Joshua, and saith, `Truly I have sinned against Jehovah, God of Israel, and thus and thus I have done;

21 and I see among the spoil a goodly robe of Shinar, and two hundred shekels of silver, and one wedge of gold, whose weight [is] fifty shekels, and I desire them, and take them; and lo, they [are] hid in the earth, in the midst of my tent, and the silver under it.'

22 And Joshua sendeth messengers, and they run unto the tent, and lo, it is hidden in his tent, and the silver under it;

23 and they take them out of the midst of the tent, and bring them in unto Joshua, and unto all the sons of Israel, and pour them out before Jehovah.

24 And Joshua taketh Achan son of Zerah, and the silver, and the robe, and the wedge of gold, and his sons, and his daughters, and his ox, and his ass, and his flock, and his tent, and all that he hath, and all Israel with him, and they cause them to go up the valley of Achor.

25 And Joshua saith, `What! thou hast troubled us! -- Jehovah doth trouble thee this day;' and all Israel cast stones at him, and they burn them with fire, and they stone them with stones,

26 and they raise up over him a great heap of stones unto this day, and Jehovah turneth back from the heat of His anger, therefore hath [one] called the name of that place `Valley of Achor' till this day.

[_Gunnar]

If one accepts the Genesis account, then one MUST accept that everything that goes wrong in this world is sin related. I believe that everyone eventually dies of something, unless they are raptured before their time comes. That is the direct or indirect result of sin in this world. YOUR OWN opinions seem to be founded on YOUR OWN feelings and if that is the case, then YOU are the judgmental one and not me. I also understand that perhaps you are afraid that what I say is true. I am very sorry that this makes you uncomfortable; however, you may wish to consider your own feelings and the reasons behind your own opinions further. A reality is that a drunk, does not get drunk by not drinking.... And AIDS is not generally a disease of abstinence nor marital bliss...

Obviously, I do not accept the Genesis account to be literally true. There are very few scientifically literate and competent people who actually do. I doubt that even a majority of mainstream Christians actually believe that the Genesis account of the creation is any more than allegorically true, at most. Though you are incapable of admitting it, the enormous amount of scientific evidence painstakingly and carefully accumulated since Genesis was written thousands of years ago very thoroughly demolishes a literal interpretation of Genesis. The original writers of Genesis did not possess more than a tiny portion of the objective knowledge of the physical world now available, and can, perhaps, be justifiably excused for taking what they wrote literally (if, indeed, they actually did, which is not as certain as you would like to believe), but nowadays such ignorance is absolutely inexcusable.

Believe it or not, I am not the slightest bit afraid that what you say is true, and not the slightest bit discomfited with the possibility that it might be. The Genesis creation account is no more likely to be literally true than ancient Greek mythology or the mythology of my Nordic ancestors.

[_Bazooka]

If one accepts the Genesis account, then one MUST accept that everything that goes wrong in this world is sin related. I believe that everyone eventually dies of something, unless they are raptured before their time comes. That is the direct or indirect result of sin in this world. YOUR OWN opinions seem to be founded on YOUR OWN feelings and if that is the case, then YOU are the judgmental one and not me. I also understand that perhaps you are afraid that what I say is true. I am very sorry that this makes you uncomfortable; however, you may wish to consider your own feelings and the reasons behind your own opinions further. A reality is that a drunk, does not get drunk by not drinking.... And AIDS is not generally a disease of abstinence nor marital bliss...

Do I win the "Irony Spotter" of the year award 2013?

[_LittleNipper]

If one accepts the Genesis account, then one MUST accept that everything that goes wrong in this world is sin related. I believe that everyone eventually dies of something, unless they are raptured before their time comes. That is the direct or indirect result of sin in this world. YOUR OWN opinions seem to be founded on YOUR OWN feelings and if that is the case, then YOU are the judgmental one and not me. I also understand that perhaps you are afraid that what I say is true. I am very sorry that this makes you uncomfortable; however, you may wish to consider your own feelings and the reasons behind your own opinions further. A reality is that a drunk, does not get drunk by not drinking.... And AIDS is not generally a disease of abstinence nor marital bliss...

Do I win the "Irony Spotter" of the year award 2013?

The only irony I see is that far too many ridicule others when they themselves have NOTHING but their OWN opinions for why they disagree. The Bible is very clear to those who are willing to read it, and I do try to allow the Bible to speak for itself. Far too many today call others judgmental when they themselves have NOTHING to base their own opinion on but entirely their own "feelings." That is a bias person. That is a judgmental person. They have their OWN criteria that they established by themselves and for themselves, and use it to defend themselves and accuse others.

[_Bazooka]

The only irony I see is that far too many ridicule others when they themselves have NOTHING but their OWN opinions for why they disagree. The Bible is very clear to those who are willing to read it, and I do try to allow the Bible to speak for itself. Far too many today call others judgmental when they themselves have NOTHING to base their own opinion on but entirely their own "feelings." That is a bias person. That is a judgmental person. They have their OWN criteria that they established by themselves and for themselves, and use it to defend themselves and accuse others.

I swear to God, me and Nipper haven't rehearsed this.....

[_ludwigm]

The only irony I see ...

I swear to God, me and Nipper haven't rehearsed this.....

Al Lewis and Willie Clark


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