Benson blows Monson's Arthur Patton tale out of the water

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_Chap
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Re: Benson blows Monson's Arthur Patton tale out of the wate

Post by _Chap »

Kishkumen wrote:I have never looked at heartwarming anecdotes as delivered by octogenarian religious leaders as a source of reliable history.

I don't expect it.

And, I don't really care.

People tell stories to make others feel good.

Big deal.


Um, but don't even octogenarian religious leaders know perfectly well that the people who are listening to them would cease to find their stories heartwarming if the said leaders were to preface them by the words "Hey folks! I needed a heartwarming story for General Conference, and since I couldn't find a suitable story that was true, I decided to make one up. Hope you enjoy it!"?

Somehow, I think that even octogenarians understand that. So if they know that, but don't warn their listeners that they are not getting the true story they were expecting, they are (excuse the word) lying, wouldn't you say?

Maybe I'm just crude and insensitive, but when I believed in a religion, I would have been a bit upset if any of my religious leaders, however old, had led me up the garden path in that manner.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
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Re: Benson blows Monson's Arthur Patton tale out of the wate

Post by _Kishkumen »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:I think the fact that Mr. Benson had to edit his story something like 12 times is indicative of the fact that story-telling isn't a hard science and is prone to errors.

You can extrapolate that a prophet of God ought to have infallible knowledge of the space-time continuum, but I think that's reaching a bit.

Bottom line is Mr. Benson loves to rustle some jimmies, but quite often he's more miss than hit.

- Doc


I agree.

I consider the topic closed.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_CameronMO
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Re: Benson blows Monson's Arthur Patton tale out of the wate

Post by _CameronMO »

Chap wrote:Um, but don't even octogenarian religious leaders know perfectly well that the people who are listening to them would cease to find their stories heartwarming if the said leaders were to preface them by the words "Hey folks! I needed a heartwarming story for General Conference, and since I couldn't find a suitable story that was true, I decided to make one up. Hope you enjoy it!"?

Somehow, I think that even octogenarians understand that. So if they know that, but don't warn their listeners that they are not getting the true story they were expecting, they are (excuse the word) lying, wouldn't you say?

Maybe I'm just crude and insensitive, but when I believed in a religion, I would have been a bit upset if any of my religious leaders, however old, had led me up the garden path in that manner.

I starting to side with Chap. These same leaders ask us to pay a honest tithe, right? They ask us if we're honest in our dealings with our fellowmen. They tell us to obey the Ten Commandments. They tell us Satan is the deceiver. And so on. I don't think it's too much to expect them to be honest.

Additionally, there are, what, 15 million members now? 80, 000 missionaries? I know the numbers were less in 2007, but he needs to dust off, and correct, some made-up, heart-warming story? There weren't any current, true, heart-warming stories to relate?
Trimble, you ignorant sack of rhinoceros puss. The only thing more obvious than your lack of education is the foul stench that surrounds you.
_Res Ipsa
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Re: Benson blows Monson's Arthur Patton tale out of the wate

Post by _Res Ipsa »

Bazooka wrote:
Brad Hudson wrote:What did this research consist of? Who did it? Exactly what did they look at? Exactly what were they told and by whom? In my opinion, "must have known" is a conclusion that requires a pretty heavy burden of proof. In Benson's piece, I see a bunch of speculation based on precious little hard evidence.


The hard evidence is that, whatever research and preparation was done for the first retelling of the story, in 1969, it was wrong.
The facts that were given in the talk about Ship name, location, what happened etc must have been researched in some way.
It is clear that, in between the telling of the original tale and it appearing 'in print' some information was received that showed what Monson had given as facts were...well...not facts. Had the footnote corrected those mistakes then yes, this is a non story. But why let the mistaken history stand as 'fact' for 38 years?


Those aren't "hard facts," Bazooka. You are mixing hard facts and your inferences from them. There's a big difference.

Hard facts:

Original story takes place when Monson is a teenager in 1944.

Monson tells story 25 years later in a conference talk. He includes details about Patton's death that are irrelevant to the story.

Soon after the talk, he receives a letter that includes the correct date of Patton's death.

At some point, a footnote is added to the talk that mentions receipt of the letter, but doesn't correct the date. We don't know when this occurred. (Was it just to the electronic version on the website or did it appear in the original printed version.)

38 years after the first talk, Monson tells the story with the details corrected. We don't know how he obtained the correct date, but have no idea whatsoever how, when or by whom the correct details on which ship and the location of the ship were obtained. (Did a family member contact Monson? Did he talk with the mother back in 1969?) Concluding there must have been "research" is simply speculation.

And your beef is that the footnote to the 1969 talk should have been expanded to correct the details? If that had been done, you'd be a ok with it?
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
_Res Ipsa
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Re: Benson blows Monson's Arthur Patton tale out of the wate

Post by _Res Ipsa »

Chap wrote:
Kishkumen wrote:I have never looked at heartwarming anecdotes as delivered by octogenarian religious leaders as a source of reliable history.

I don't expect it.

And, I don't really care.

People tell stories to make others feel good.

Big deal.


Um, but don't even octogenarian religious leaders know perfectly well that the people who are listening to them would cease to find their stories heartwarming if the said leaders were to preface them by the words "Hey folks! I needed a heartwarming story for General Conference, and since I couldn't find a suitable story that was true, I decided to make one up. Hope you enjoy it!"?

Somehow, I think that even octogenarians understand that. So if they know that, but don't warn their listeners that they are not getting the true story they were expecting, they are (excuse the word) lying, wouldn't you say?

Maybe I'm just crude and insensitive, but when I believed in a religion, I would have been a bit upset if any of my religious leaders, however old, had led me up the garden path in that manner.


Chap, if the evidence supported the conclusion that the story was made up, I'd agree. It doesn't come close to that.
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
_Craig Paxton
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Re: Benson blows Monson's Arthur Patton tale out of the wate

Post by _Craig Paxton »

Spanner wrote:
Brad Hudson wrote:I don't think it matters that it was a prepared talk. The source of the story is Monson, is it not?


The point is that the story was researched to get the correct ship and location details for the 2007 presentation. So Monson must have known he was not giving the whole truth about the manner of death.

ETA: those were the parts of the story that he embellished as well, so the embellishment looks deliberately manipulative on top of choosing to use inaccurate information.


It was complete manipulation and distortion of the actual facts...we just don't know what Monson knew...for all we know he had been told that Patton had died as metal of honor hero while diverting a Kamikaze attacking the aircraft carrier. As I stated earlier, GA's focus on the emotional triggers in a story to produce the desired emotional (spiritual) experience in their audience. If he's guilty of anything...it is this.
"...The official doctrine of the LDS Church is a Global Flood" - BCSpace

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_Chap
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Re: Benson blows Monson's Arthur Patton tale out of the wate

Post by _Chap »

Chap wrote:
Kishkumen wrote:I have never looked at heartwarming anecdotes as delivered by octogenarian religious leaders as a source of reliable history.

I don't expect it.

And, I don't really care.

People tell stories to make others feel good.

Big deal.


Um, but don't even octogenarian religious leaders know perfectly well that the people who are listening to them would cease to find their stories heartwarming if the said leaders were to preface them by the words "Hey folks! I needed a heartwarming story for General Conference, and since I couldn't find a suitable story that was true, I decided to make one up. Hope you enjoy it!"?

Somehow, I think that even octogenarians understand that. So if they know that, but don't warn their listeners that they are not getting the true story they were expecting, they are (excuse the word) lying, wouldn't you say?

Maybe I'm just crude and insensitive, but when I believed in a religion, I would have been a bit upset if any of my religious leaders, however old, had led me up the garden path in that manner.


Brad Hudson wrote:
Chap, if the evidence supported the conclusion that the story was made up, I'd agree. It doesn't come close to that.


The point of my post was to answer the one I quoted, which seemed to suggest that it was pointless to ask whether a story told by (say) Thomas Monson was or was not accurate - this being to fail to understand that the aim of the story was simply to be heartwarming.

On the contrary, I suspect, the audience would not feel the desired effect if they did not believe that the story, in its details as told, was true. The story does not have to be revealed to be entirely fictitious in order for the warming effect to be greatly diminished.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
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Re: Benson blows Monson's Arthur Patton tale out of the wate

Post by _Res Ipsa »

Chap, in this case, I don't think the details at issue add anything to the substance of the story. The substance of the story was a guy he knew died in WWII, that his mother was heartbroken, he visited her to try and somehow be of comfort, she asked if she'd ever see him again, he bore his testimony. That's it. Leaving out the details (date of death, location of death, etc.) wouldn't have diminished the story at all. He got those details wrong in 1969, and corrected them in 2007.
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951
_Chap
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Re: Benson blows Monson's Arthur Patton tale out of the wate

Post by _Chap »

Chap wrote:The point of my post was to answer the one I quoted, which seemed to suggest that it was pointless to ask whether a story told by (say) Thomas Monson was or was not accurate - this being to fail to understand that the aim of the story was simply to be heartwarming.

On the contrary, I suspect, the audience would not feel the desired effect if they did not believe that the story, in its details as told, was true. The story does not have to be revealed to be entirely fictitious in order for the warming effect to be greatly diminished.



Brad Hudson wrote:Chap, in this case, I don't think the details at issue add anything to the substance of the story. The substance of the story was a guy he knew died in WWII, that his mother was heartbroken, he visited her to try and somehow be of comfort, she asked if she'd ever see him again, he bore his testimony. That's it. Leaving out the details (date of death, location of death, etc.) wouldn't have diminished the story at all. He got those details wrong in 1969, and corrected them in 2007.


We are, I think, at cross purposes.

You think I am talking about the particular story in the OP. I am however, (as my previous post tried to make clear) commenting on an earlier post that effectively made the claim that in general it was not appropriate to expect old men telling heartwarming stories to stick to the truth.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_Steve Benson
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Re: Benson blows Monson's Arthur Patton tale out of the wate

Post by _Steve Benson »

Per the purported combat death of Arthur F. Patton in 1944 (as falsely reported by Thomas S. Monson since 1969), the facts are clear, despite Monson's muddied waters:

Fact #1: Monson is a false prophet

Fact 2: Monson can't get, or keep, his fairy tale straight on Patton.

Let's break it down and, in the process, watch Monson's faith-promoting fable break down, as well.

--Monson Myth #1

Monson initially, and falsely, claims in one fell swoop that Patton was KIA (killed in action) in 1942 while aboard the U.S.S. Lexington in the Battle of Coral Sea. In making this assertion, Monson manages to get the wrong battle, the wrong battle site, the wrong battle date, the wrong name of the battleship, the wrong cause of Patton's death and the wrong date of Patton's death. Other than that, what a great story, eh?

In his April 1969 sermon, “The Message; Mrs. Patton, Arthur Lives,” Monson says that his thoughts turned to Patton as he was on a commercial airline flight that was taking him over “THE CORAL SEA, SCENE OF THE GREAT SEA BATTLE OF WORLD WAR II.” Monson declared that in “THE BATTLE OF THE CORAL SEAL, [CAME] THE SINKING OF THE LEXINGTON, AND THE DEATH OF ARTHUR PATTON.” Indeed, Monson makes it clear that Patton was on the USS Lexington on the day it was sunk and that Patton died in that sinking:

“THE EVENTS OF THAT FAITHFUL EIGHTH DAY OF MAY IN 1942 WHEN THE MAMMOTH AIRCRAFT CARRIER LEXIINGTON SLIPPED TO ITS FINAL RESTING PLACE ON THE OCEAN FLOOR. 2,735 SAILORS SCRAMBLED TO SAFETY. OTHERS WERE NOT SO FORTUNATE. ONE WHO WENT DOWN WITH HIS SHIP WAS MY BOYHOOD FRIEND ARTHUR PATTON.” (emphasis added)

Too bad it didn't happen.

The Actual Facts

Patton was:

(a) not in the Battle of Coral Sea on 8 May 1942;

(b) not on the aircraft carrier USS Lexington on 8 May 1942 ; and

(c) not killed in the Battle of Coral Sea (or any other battle, for that matter) on 8 May 1942.

According to the USS Lexington CV 16 Association’s report of “Casualties: Killed in Action (KIA)” from “1943-1946,” a total of 238 men were killed in action and a total of 162 were wounded in action during that three-year period. Arthur Patton is not listed as having either been killed in action or wounded in action during that time period. Patton (who was a naval enlistee) is not named on the U.S.S. Lexington’s “Report of Casualties” as being among the men who (unless otherwise noted) were “killed in action on May 8, 1942” (the day the USS Lexington was sunk with, according to Monson, onboard). That's because Patton was not a member of the crew.

(“USS Lexington CV 16 Association,” under “1943-1946, Casualties: Killed in Action (KIA): 238 Wounded in Action: 162, Below are the names of those KIA ,” at: http://www.usslexingtoncv16.org/IN_Memory.html; and
“U.S.S. LEXINGTON [CV2],” under “Enclosure B Report of Casualties, USS Lexington, “ at:
http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/shi ... ral.html#B)


The documentable record clearly shows that Patton’s operational ship around the time Patton actually died was not the U.S.S. Lexington (as Monson initially claims). Before Patton joined the crew of what was to be his last ship, he was a crew member of the U.S.S. Dorsey (a destroyer). Around the time of his death, he was member of the crew of the U.S.S. White Plains (an aircraft carrier). His general time of death is confirmed by the U.S.S. White Plains crew list, which contains Patton’s name. Monson was way off on the date, not to mention the nature, of Patton's demise.

Monson apparently realized he couldn't ignore such facts forever and was eventually forced to place not-yet-dead Patton on a completely different ship. By the time of his 2007 do-over sermon, “Mrs. Patton--The Story Continues,” Monson has begun singing a different tune as to the identity of Patton’s actual boat:

“IN MARCH 1944, WITH THE WAR NOW RAGING, ARTHUR WAS TRANSFERRED FROM THE U.S.S . DORSEY, A DESTROYER, TO THE U.S.S . WHITE PLAINS, AN AIRCRAFT CARRIER.” (emphasis added)

As mentioned, Monson also gets Patton’s eventual time of death wrong. In his October 2007 General Conference sermon, "Mrs. Patton--The Story Continues," Monson paints a picture in which he suggests that Patton died earlier in his final year of life than he actually did. As to Patton’s time of death, Monson erroneously frames it this way, re-emphasized as follows:

“IN MARCH 1944, WITH THE WAR NOW RAGING, ARTHUR WAS TRANSFERRED . . . TO THE U.S.S . WHITE PLAINS, AN AIRCRAFT CARRIER. WHILE AT SAIPAN IN THE SOUTH PACIFIC, THE SHIP WAS ATTACKED. ARTHUR WAS ONE OF THOSE ON BOARD WHO WAS LOST AT SEA.” (emphasis added)

As will be demonstrated, Patton did not die on or around early 1944 but, rather, most likely around July of the same year, due to non-combat factors.

Monson has never p;ublicly acknowledged any of his glaringly false claims as to the above.
_____


--Monson Myth #2

Monson claims that Patton was killed in combat at a time when Patton’s ship was not even engaged in combat operations. In Monson’s 1969 sermon, “The Message: Mrs. Patton: Arthur Lives,” Monson declares, as previously noted, that Patton “ WAS DEAD, KILLED IN A FAR-OFF BATTLE.” He misidentifies that military conflict as “THE BATTLE OF THE CORAL SEAL,” which he declares resulted in “THE DEATH OF ARTHUR PATTON.” (emphasis added)

The Actual Facts

First, below is information on the U.S.S. White Plains’ documented combat operations off Saipan in the summer of 1944 (the year of Patton’s disappearance is duly noted on a website devoted to the World War II actions of that particular vessel. It includes the following description of the ship's actual combat activities:

"'Saipan--15 through 22 June 1944'

"At the end of May she stood out of Pearl Harbor in company with units of the task force assembled to invade the Marinas. WHITE PLAINS' portion of the Fleet sortied from Eniwetok Atoll and during the voyage from there to the Marinas, her aircraft provided anti-submarine and combat air patrol. On June 17, her anti-aircraft gunners earned their first definite kill. Later, VC-4 Avengers successfully torpedoed an enemy transport during a sweep of the island of Rota. . . . In July she supported the Tinian assault. . . ."

("Photographs of Task Force Unit 77.4.3,, Including Specifications and Histories," under "U.S.S. White Plains [CVE 66]," original emphasis, at: http://www.bosamar.com/pages/cve66,)


Additional combat history of the U.S.S. White Plains in the Saipan theater provides other details of its specific combat operations:

"At the end of May, the White Plains steamed out of port in company with units of the Task Forces assembled to invade the Mariana Islands. The portion of the Fleet containing the White Plains sortied from Eniwetok Atoll, and during the voyage from there to the Marianas, her aircraft provided anti-submarine warfare patrols and part of the combat air patrol.

"During the assault on Saipan, her planes continued to cover the Fleet against submarine and air attack, strafed the beaches, and spotted shellfire for gunfire support ships. They helped repulse at least three major enemy air attacks. On 17 June, while helping to fight off those raids, her antiaircraft gunners earned their first definite kill. Later, VC-4 Avengers successfully torpedoed an enemy transport during a sweep of the island of Rota."

("U.S.S. White Plains [CVE-66]," under "Service History: World War II," at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_White_ ... 8CVE-66%29)


Note that the above accounts do not indicate that the U.S.S. White Plains suffered significant casualties or damage as a result of these combat operations.

Second, once these combat operations were concluded, the U.S.S. White Plains left the combat zone off Saipan on 2 July 1944--meaning that (contrary to Monson's story) Patton was not killed in combat within that zone or time period when the ship was in its theater of operations. To the contrary, by this time, Patton's ship was steaming to and/or arriving at an atoll outside the combat zone prior to Patton being declared "missing as result of [his] own misconduct":

"[The U.S.S.] WHITE PLAINS departed the combat zone on 2 July [1944] but, after a week at Eniwetok, returned to the Marianas with her air squadron upgraded to a total of 28 aircraft. During her second tour of duty in the Marianas, the escort carrier supported the Tinian assault late in July. Her planes carried out sortie after sortie in support of the troops ashore and over the ships assembled, but WHITE PLAINS herself suffered no enemy attacks. Her heavy flight schedule proved grueling to air squadron and ship's company alike."

("U.S.S. White Plains [CVE 66], formerly ELBOUR BAY, formerly ACV 66, formerly AVG 66, later CVU 66, decommissioned," under "History of U.S.S. WHITE PLAINS," original emphasis, at:
http://navysite.de/cve/cve66.htm)
_____


--Monson Myth #3

Monson falsely states that Patton was killed in combat when he actually was officially designated by his own ship's records as MKissing due to [his] own misconduct." Yet, in his April 1969 sermon, “The Message: Mrs. Patton, Arthur Lives,” Monson says that Patton “WAS DEAD, KILLED IN A FAR-OFF BATTLE; a young man who “WENT DOWN WITH HIS SHIP,” and “WAS LOST AT SEA,” resulting in his “DEATH,” having “DIED AT SEA.” (emphasis added)

Continuing that false narrative almost 40 years later, Monson in in his 2007 sermon, “Arthur Patton—The Story Continues,” declares that in “the front window of the Patton home” was displayed a “blue star [that] represented “he whom . . . “HAD BEEN KILLED IN BATTLE.” Without citing any evidence to support his description, Monson declares that “ARTHUR PATTON DIED QUICKLY,” but assures believers that prophetic visions have been given by God to his chosen servants, showing that. in the resurrection, “THE SEA GAVE UP THE DEAD WHICH WERE IN IT.” (emphasis added)

There is no available official U.S. governmental record of Patton having been killed in action. To the contrary, Patton’s status was first officially reported as “missing,” with his death date eventually designated (or at least assumed) to have been 5 July 1944, without noting cause of death.

The historically-documentable evidence clearly records the official status of Patton’s condition. It was not, as Monson claims, one of being killed in action. According to Patton’s ship's own "Report of Changes of U.S.S. White Plains (CVE 66) for the month ending 19th day of July 1944," he was declared as "missing" on 4 July 1944 (not, as Monson falsely suggests, sometime around March 1944). Moreover, that "Missing" designation was determined , in Patton's case, to be the "result of own misconduct." In other words, Patton was not classified by his ship's crew log as having been killed during, or as a result of, battle action.

Also reported "Missing as result of own misconduct" on the same day as Patton was a fellow shipmate, Blake Lewis Pauley. On the actual report, the designation for both men as "Missing" (handwritten over the crossed-out, typed abbreviation "Trans." for "Transferred") appears under category 7: "Received, transferred, deserted, discharged, change of rating, death, or any other change of status." The designation for both men as "Missing as result of own misconduct" appears in category 9, under the sub-heading: "Vessel or station from which received, to what vessel or station transferred, when discharged and character of discharge; where deserted, and amount due or overpaid. When died, cause of death and where and when buried. If rated and authority for same. If disrated, give cause; if on detached duty, give place of duty. If passenger, give purpose of travel and final disposition."

("Report of Changes of U.S.S. White Plains [CVE 66] for the month ending 19th day of July 1944," line 4 for "Arthur Frank Patton," Service Number: 368 71 14, Date of Enlistment: 10 Dec. 41, Place of Enlistment: Salt Lake City; line 5 for Blake Lewis Pauley, Service Number: 632 44 04, Date of Enlistment: 16 Feb. 42, Place of Enlistment: Los Angeles; photocopy of the actual "Report of Changes" log in my possession)


If some wish to argue that Patton could have been deemed "missing" because he was “AWOL” (absent without leave), he would have conceivably been so categorized, or perhaps been determined to have "deserted." Since Patton wasn't designated as either AWOL or "deserted," it appears likely that some kind of non-combat related fate befell him and Pauley--one caused by their "own misconduct" (whatever that happened to have been, including, perhaps, an accident of some sort brought on by their personal actions)--which then led them to be officially designated as "Missing."

One thing for certain, however, is that Patton has never been officially designated as having been KIA in a World War II combat-operations zone. A World War II combined-task-unit casualty report (one that included the U.S.S. White Plains’), lists--contrary to Monson's claim--no "Arthur Patton," no “Arthur Frank Patton,” or no “Arthur Frank Patten” as having been killed in action. Accompanying that list is the note specifically pertaining to World World War II Navy personnel killed, lost or missing in action: "KIA/MIAs are verified via the MEN LOST IN ACTION FROM THE CVE/DD/DE's OF TAFFY III monument at Fort Rosecrans National Cemetery, San Diego, CA."

("Crew Lists of Task Unit 77.4.3: U.S.S. White Plains [CVE 66] and Composite Squadron VC-4," original emphasis, free login or registration required for viewing, at: http://www.bosamar.com/pages/crew_main)


A separate World War II state-by-state summary of individuals who were killed in action, who died of their wounds or who lost their lives due to operational movements in combat zones does not list, for Utah, an “Arthur Patton,” an “Arthur Frank Patton” or an “Arthur Frank Patten.” Interestingly, neither is any "Arthur Frank Patton/Patten" listed in the document's section of “Missing in Action or During Operational War Missions."

("State Summary of War Casualties [Utah], U.S. Navy 1946, Compiled July 1946 by Casualty Section, Office of Public Information, Navy Department," under "Killed in Action, Died of Wounds, or Lost Lives as Result of Operational Movements in War Zones," alphabetized by name under "P," in "Dead" section, p. 5,; and ibid., “Missing in Action or During Operational War Missions,”
at: http://archives.utah.gov/research/guide ... s-utah.pdf)


In other words, while the records of Patton’s own ship, the U.S.S. White Plains, designated Patton as “Missing,” he is otherwise listed in no other U.S. military records as to eventual status or cause of death.

There is evidence, however, that a Utah citizen living in Salt Lake City named Arthur Frank Patton was a member of the U.S. armed forces. Under the category of “Utah Military Service Years, 1861-1970,” the website, “ancestry.com” shows the image of a typed file card for a Utah Military Service member for service year 1941. The card contains the following information:

“Arthur Frank Patton, Navy; mother: Teresa Patton, 533 So. 2nd W, SLC.” A typed enlistment-related reference appearing in the lower right area of the card reads: “Enl-no. Bk#1, Pg 22. c.l. Trib 12-12-41,” The card does not show a date of birth, date of death, years of service, rank or other details.

Patton vanishes completely from U.S. military in-service and out-of-service records after July 1944, strongly suggesting that that is the general time period when he went missing and died.

Despite offering no specific or reliable indication on how Patton died, Monson, in his 2007 post-mortem Mormon makeover,emphatically claims that

a) Patton's ship was “ATTACKED:”

b) Patton was onboard that ship; and

c) Patton was “LOST AT SEA.” (emphasis added)

If Monson acquired this information from Patton's mother, he does not say so. All he says, according to a 1994 version of Monson’s story as found in Family Home Evening manual lesson, is that “one day she [Patton's mother, Terese] received the dreaded news that Arthur had DIED AT SEA.” (emphasis added)

(“FHE: You Are Not Alone,” Family Home Evening Lesson, by Shauna Gibby, quoted from Thomas S. Monson, “Inspiring Experiences That Build Faith: From the Life and Ministry of Thomas S. Monson” [Salt Lake City, Utah : Deseret Book, 1994], pp. 190-91, 5 November 2009, at: http://ldsliving.com/story/4170-fhe-you-are-not-alone)

One would think that if Patton's mother had informed Monson on specific details of Patton's demise, Monson would have eagerly shared them with his audiences. Yet, all Monson reports is that Patton "died quickly." Where Monson got that idea is anyone's guess.

Curiously, in his 2007 sermon Monson evidences some rather detailed knowledge of Patton's military situation (specifically, that Patton was in the Saipan theater aboard the U.S.S. White Plains aircraft carrier, having been transferred to it from the destroyer U.S.S. Dorsey. As the years lengthen, Monson's knowledge of Patton's military circumstances strangely appears to have expanded--meaning, that Mrs. Patton wasn't helping him accumulate facts but someone else was. Indeed, in his 2007 sermon, Monson declares, in essence, that he doesn't know where Mrs. Patton is and dramatically speaks to her in abstentia.

The in-theater combat information that Monson relays in his revised 2007 version of his talk suggests the probability that, at least by 2007, Monson had researchers doing his homework for him on Arthur Patton matters (such as jettisoning Monson's malfunctioning fable that Patton had died aboard the U.S.S. Lexington in the Coral Sea in May 1942). Monson (or at least his handy-dandy speechwriters) could have also had access by this time to internet-available military records (through the assistance of world-wide-web-savvy Mormon Church genealogists helping to research and/or write his speeches)--which could possibly have informed Monson of Patton's "missing due to own misconduct" status. However, it would not be surprising that if Monson knew, or should have known, about Patton's actual, verifiable missing status in July 1944, he would have chosen not to mention it in his sermons because Monson had already invested too much of his own credibility casting Patton as a heroic figure who had been "killed in action" and, in the process, "lost at sea."

Making things easier for Monson to fabricate was the fact that Arthur Patton's mother was deceased by June 1980.

From the Social Security Death Index:

"Name: Terese Patton
DOB: 11/28/1894
Place of Issuance [of SS #]: UTAH
DOD: June 1980
Last Residence: Visalia, California"


More information from the state of California Death Index:

"Name: Terese Patton
SSN: 529-24-8331
Last Residence: 93277 Visalia, Tulare, California, United States of America
Born: 28 Nov 1894
Last Benefit: 93277 Visalia, Tulare, California, United States of America
Died: Jun 1980
State (Year) SSN issued: Utah (Before 1951)"

Dead moms tell no tales. With Patton's mother out of the way, Monson and his Mormon Mood Machine were home free--or so he ,thought.

Patton’s mother, according to Monson's 2007 refabricated version of events, eventually informs Monson by letter (after Monson had first declared in his 1969 sermon that Patton died in 1942 in what turned out to have been in the wrong sea, on the wrong boat and on the wrong day) that her son was "KILLED" on 5 July 1944. Monson, however, has not publicly claimed that Patton's mother informed him of how Patton was supposedly "KILLED." (emphasis added)

Points to keep in mind:

a) Patton was not dead on 2 July 1944--the day the U.S.S. White Plains set sail out of the zone of operations for a temporary reprieve from combat at Eniwetok.

b) If Patton had been determined to be dead or missing at an earlier date, his status in that regard would most likely have been so noted in the ship's daily crew records. (Patton was not officially listed in crew records as "Missing as a result of own misconduct" until 4 July 1944 and his death date never reportd in the ship’s official records).

c) Official California death records note Patton’s shipmate, Pauley (who also ended up being unaccounted for) as having died on 5 July 1944, with no cause of death indicated. Here is what the document provides on him, along with the database source:

"Last Name: PAULEY
First Name: BLAKE
Middle: LEWIS
Birth Date: 02/16/1927
Mother Maiden: CRANE
Father Last: PAULEY
Sex: M
Birth Place: CALIFORNIA
Death Place: OTHER COUNTRIES
Residence Death Date: 07/05/1944
SSN: 550-26-4809
Age: 17 years"

("The California Department of Health Services Office of Health Information and Research Vital Statistics Section," emphasis in original)


Since Pauley and Patton were officially designated on the U.S.S. White Plains’ "Report of Changes" for the month ending 19 July 1944 as having gone "Missing as result of own misconduct," one could reasonably speculate that Pauley and Patton share the same death date: 5 July 1944. Monson declared that this is the date Patton's mother provided him, in a letter she wrote to Monson, regarding the death date of her son Arthur. In his October 2007 General Conference talk, "Mrs. Patton--the Story Continues," Monson said:

"During the first week of May 1969, to my astonishment and joy, I received a letter postmarked Pomona, California, and dated April 29, 1969. It was from Mrs. Terese Patton. I share with you a part of that letter:

“'Dear Tommy,

“'I hope you don’t mind my calling you Tommy, as I always think of you that way. I don’t know how to thank you for the comforting talk you gave.

“'Arthur was 15 years old when he enlisted in the Navy [Note: This is incorrect. According to Arthur's official enlistment card, he signed up for the Navy on 10 December 1941, when he was 16, having been born 18 August 1925 in Chicago, Illinois]. He was killed one month before his 19th birthday on July 5, 1944.

“It was wonderful of you to think of us. I don’t know how to thank you for your comforting words, both when Arthur died and again in your talk. I have had many questions over the years, and you have answered them. I am now at peace concerning Arthur. . . . God bless and keep you always.

“'Love,

“'Terese Patton”'"


There is something highly unusual about Monson's version of events, as it relates to the afore-noted letter from Mrs. Patton to Monson. Her correspondence was not quoted by Monson in the above detail (which detail included Patton's death date of 5 July 1944) for some 38 years after Monson received the letter. When Monson finally got around to quoting this letter in its expanded form, it appears in Monson's 2007 sermon only after Monson's false claim (first made back in 1969 that Patton had died on 8 May 1942 aboard the U.S.S. Lexington in the Coral Sea) had been kept out of the text of his altered 2007 talk.

Tellingly, the first version of Mrs. Patton's letter from which Monson quotes is placed in shorter, edited form in a postscript to the printed version of Monson's April 1969 General Conference sermon, entitled, "The Message--Arthur Lives." There, Monson mentions having received a letter from Mrs. Patton after giving his 1969 sermon. The portion provided in Monson's postscript does not mention Mrs. Patton's specific reference to her son's death date as being 5 July 1944. Why? To have provided that date would have meant contradicting the false death date that Monson had claimed for Patton in his original 1969 sermon; that false date being 8 May 1942. The excerpted portion of Mrs. Patton's letter that Monson instead chose to quote in the postscript to his falsely-dated April 1969 sermon reads as follows:

"Note: Following the original broadcast of this message, President Monson received a touching letter from Mrs. Terese Patton, Arthur’s mother, who was living in Pomona, California. Among other things, she wrote, 'I don’t know how to thank you for your wonderful and comforting words. God bless you always.'"

No death date is mentioned. Moreover, Monson does not specify to his listening audience what the military told Patton's mother about the death of her son. All he reports is that she told him her son was "killed" on 5 July 1944.

********************


What was actually killed was Thomas S. Monson’s flailing and failing credibility, which began experiencing serious problems staying afloat back in 1969, when he started spinning his yarn about Arthur F. Patton --and which has been keeping Monson drowning in his own lies ever since.

(For the texts of both of Monson's historically-dysfunctional Patton sermons, see: Thomas S. Monson, “The Message: Mrs. Patton, Arthur Lives,” General Conferece talk, 6 April 1969, Salt Lake City, Utah, reprinted in “New Era,” 6 April 1969, p. 4, at: http://www.LDS.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?v ... 82620a____ ; and Thomas S. Monson, “Mrs. Patton--The Story Continues,” General Conference talk, October 2007, Salt Lake City, Utah, reprinted in “Ensign,” November 2007, pp. 21–24, at: https://www.LDS.org/general-conference/ ... s?lang=eng)
Last edited by Guest on Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:45 am, edited 8 times in total.
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