Bazooka wrote:Subby, God was once a man like us, so He is certainly beholden to someone...
how do you figure? I mean if you are trying to imply that exaltation to "God" still has one beholden then please, explain...with scriptural support if possible...but i assume you are going to rely on your usual methods, which reside in "thin air".
Well, in terms of plurality of Gods (which you believe in, right?) if our God was once a man like us, on an earth like ours, then it stands to reason he in turn answered to His God, His Creator....right?
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
Bazooka wrote:Well, in terms of plurality of Gods (which you believe in, right?) if our God was once a man like us, on an earth like ours, then it stands to reason he in turn answered to His God, His Creator....right?
yeah, i got that part of your reasoning....but i did not get the the part where that "beholden" was transferable with exaltation. I mean, to me, it is obvious that the God beholden to the Law vs the Law beholden to God discussion is interesting...but, and more to the point - if your assertion here were true (or rational) - exactly how does that translate into God being beholden to you (a man) with regards to a Tsunami in the Philippines? (not that you are prone to wander off point).
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
Bazooka wrote:Well, in terms of plurality of Gods (which you believe in, right?) if our God was once a man like us, on an earth like ours, then it stands to reason he in turn answered to His God, His Creator....right?
yeah, i got that part of your reasoning....but i did not get the the part where that "beholden" was transferable with exaltation. I mean, to me, it is obvious that the God beholden to the Law vs the Law beholden to God discussion is interesting...but, and more to the point - if your assertion here were true (or rational) - exactly how does that translate into God being beholden to you (a man) with regards to a Tsunami in the Philippines? (not that you are prone to wander off point).
Well, I thought that when God stated to Noah that He would never again wipe people from the face of the earth with floods, that He would honour the principle of that particular covenant as opposed to relying on splitting hairs over the small print....
RAINBOW See also Ark; Flood at Noah’s Time; Noah, Bible Patriarch The sign or token of God’s covenant with Noah (Gen. 9:13–17). JST, Gen. 9:21–25 explains that the covenant includes the promises that the earth will never again be covered with a flood of water, that the Zion of Enoch will return, and that the Lord will come again to dwell on the earth.
...because the difference between the whole planet being covered with water as opposed to their particular part of the planet is a fairly moot point as far as the dead Filipino's are concerned.
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
Bazooka wrote:Well, I thought that when God stated to Noah that He would never again wipe people from the face of the earth with floods, that He would honour the principle of that particular covenant as opposed to relying on splitting hairs over the small print....
RAINBOW See also Ark; Flood at Noah’s Time; Noah, Bible Patriarch The sign or token of God’s covenant with Noah (Gen. 9:13–17). JST, Gen. 9:21–25 explains that the covenant includes the promises that the earth will never again be covered with a flood of water, that the Zion of Enoch will return, and that the Lord will come again to dwell on the earth.
...because the difference between the whole planet being covered with water as opposed to their particular part of the planet is a fairly moot point as far as the dead Filipino's are concerned.
again...explain the beholden to man part all you have done here is dance....poorly
and the flood the earth vs a Tsunami is not splitting hairs...but hey lets us explore that idea what say you about Mt Vesuvius? obviously not a disagreeable act for you since God never said he would not spew lava all over people?
your absurdities are running their course my friend....can you explain why you believe and exclaim that God should be beholden to man or not?
waiting.......
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
Judges 3:1-31 Listed are the nations the Lord left in the land to test the next generation of Israel who had not experienced the wars of Canaan. God wanted to give opportunity to the youth of Israel to exercise faith and obedience in conquering their enemies: the Philistines (five cities), the Canaanites, the Sidonians, the Hivites living in Mount Lebanon, from Baal-hermon to the entrance of Hamath.
Israel lived among the Canaanites, Hittites, Hivites, Perizzites, Amorites, and Jebusites. But instead of destroying them, the people of Israel intermarried. The young men of Israel took pagan girls to wives, and the Israelite girls married pagan men. soon Israel was worshiping idols. The people of Israel were very evil in God’s sight ---worshipping Baal and the Asheroth idols.
The anger of the Lord flamed out against Israel, and he let King Cushan-rishathaim of eastern Syria conquer them. They were under his rule for eight years. But when Israel cried out to the Lord, he gave them Caleb’s nephew, Othniel (son of Kenaz, Caleb’s younger brother) to save them. The Spirit of the Lord took control of him, and he reformed and purged Israel so that when he led the forces of Israel against the army of King Cushan-rishathaim, the Lord helped Israel conquer him completely. As a result, for 40 years under Othniel, there was peace in the land. When Othniel died, the people of Israel turned once again to idol; worship, so God helped King Eglon of Moab to conquer part of Israel at that time. Allied with him were the armies of the Ammonites and the Amalekites. These forces defeated the Israelites and took possession of Jericho, often called “The City of Palm Trees.” For the next 18 years the people of Israel were required to pay terribly high taxes to King Eglon.
But when they cried to the Lord, God sent them a savior, Ehud (son of Gera, a Benjaminite), who was left-handed. Ehud was the man chosen to carry Israel’s annual tax money to the Moabite capital. Before he went on this trip, he made himself a double-edged dagger eighteen inches long and hid it in his clothing, strapped against his right thigh. After delivering the money to King Eglon (who was very, very fat!), he started home again. But outside the city, at the quarries of Gilgal, he sent his companions on and returned alone to the king.
“I have a secret message for you,” he told King Eglon.
The king immediately dismissed all those who were with him so that he could have a private interview. Ehud walked over to him as he was sitting in a cool upstairs room and said to him, “It is a message from God!” King Eglon stood up at once to receive it, whereupon Ehud reached beneath his robe with his strong left hand, pulled out the double-bladed dagger strapped against his right thigh, and plunged it deep into the king’s belly. The hilt of the dagger disappeared beneath the flesh, and his lard closed over it. Leaving the dagger there, Ehud locked the doors behind him and escaped across an upstairs porch.
When the king’s servants returned and saw that the doors were locked, they waited, thinking that perhaps he dropped his undergarment and at his toilet. But when, after a long time, he still didn’t come out, they became concerned and got a key. And when they opened the door, they found their master dead on the floor. Meanwhile Ehud had escaped past the quarries to Seirah. He arrived in the hill country of Ephraim, he blew a trumpet as a call to arms and gathered an army under his own command --- saying that the Lord has defeated the enemy. The army then proceeded to seize the fords of the Jordan River near Moab, preventing anyone from crossing. They attacked the Moabites and killed about 10,000 of the strongest and most skillful of their soldiers --- none escaped. Moab was conquered by Israel that day, and the land was at peace for the next 80 years.
The next judge after Ehud to save Israel was Shamgar (son of Anath). He killed 600 Philistines with an ox prod.
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1 And these [are] the nations which Jehovah left, to try Israel by them, all who have not known all the wars of Canaan;
2 (only for the sake of the generations of the sons of Israel's knowing, to teach them war, only those who formerly have not known them) --
3 five princes of the Philistines, and all the Canaanite, and the Zidonian, and the Hivite inhabiting mount Lebanon, from mount Baal-Hermon unto the entering in of Hamath;
4 and they are to prove Israel by them, to know whether they obey the commands of Jehovah that He commanded their fathers by the hand of Moses.
5 And the sons of Israel have dwelt in the midst of the Canaanite, the Hittite, and the Amorite, and the Perizzite, and the Hivite, and the Jebusite,
6 and take their daughters to them for wives, and their daughters have given to their sons, and they serve their gods;
7 and the sons of Israel do the evil thing in the eyes of Jehovah, and forget Jehovah their God, and serve the Baalim and the shrines.
8 And the anger of Jehovah burneth against Israel, and He selleth them into the hand of Chushan-Rishathaim king of Aram-Naharaim, and the sons of Israel serve Chushan-Rishathaim eight years;
9 and the sons of Israel cry unto Jehovah, and Jehovah raiseth a saviour to the sons of Israel, and he saveth them -- Othniel son of Kenaz, Caleb's younger brother;
10 and the Spirit of Jehovah is upon him, and he judgeth Israel, and goeth out to battle, and Jehovah giveth unto his hand Chushan-Rishathaim king of Aram, and strong is his hand against Chushan-Rishathaim;
11 and the land resteth forty years. And Othniel son of Kenaz dieth,
12 and the sons of Israel add to do the evil thing in the eyes of Jehovah; and Jehovah strengtheneth Eglon king of Moab against Israel, because that they have done the evil thing in the eyes of Jehovah;
13 and he gathereth unto him the Bene-Ammon and Amalek, and goeth and smiteth Israel, and they possess the city of palms;
14 and the sons of Israel serve Eglon king of Moab eighteen years.
15 And the sons of Israel cry unto Jehovah, and Jehovah raiseth to them a saviour, Ehud son of Gera, a Benjamite (a man -- shut of his right hand), and the sons of Israel send by his hand a present to Eglon king of Moab;
16 and Ehud maketh for himself a sword, and it hath two mouths (a cubit [is] its length), and he girdeth it under his long robe on his right thigh;
17 and he bringeth near the present to Eglon king of Moab, and Eglon [is] a very fat man.
18 And it cometh to pass, when he hath finished to bring near the present, that he sendeth away the people bearing the present,
19 and he himself hath turned back from the graven images which [are] at Gilgal, and saith, `A secret word I have unto thee, O king;' and he saith, `Hush!' and go out from him do all those standing by him.
20 And Ehud hath come unto him, and he is sitting in the upper chamber of the wall which he hath for himself, and Ehud saith, `A word of God I have unto thee;' and he riseth from off the throne;
21 and Ehud putteth forth his left hand, and taketh the sword from off his right thigh, and striketh it into his belly;
22 and the haft also goeth in after the blade, and the fat shutteth on the blade, that he hath not drawn the sword out of his belly, and it goeth out at the fundament.
23 And Ehud goeth out at the porch, and shutteth the doors of the upper chamber upon him, and hath bolted [it];
24 and he hath gone out, and his servants have come in, and look, and lo, the doors of the upper chamber are bolted, and they say, `He is only covering his feet in the inner chamber of the wall.'
25 And they stay till confounded, and lo, he is not opening the doors of the upper chamber, and they take the key, and open, and lo, their lord is fallen to the earth -- dead.
26 And Ehud escaped during their tarrying, and hath passed by the images, and is escaped to Seirath.
27 And it cometh to pass, in his coming in, that he bloweth with a trumpet in the hill-country of Ephraim, and go down with him do the sons of Israel from the hill-country, and he before them;
28 and he saith unto them, `Pursue after me, for Jehovah hath given your enemies, the Moabites, into your hand;' and they go down after him, and capture the passages of the Jordan towards Moab, and have not permitted a man to pass over.
29 And they smite Moab at that time, about ten thousand men, all robust, and every one a man of valour, and not a man hath escaped,
30 and Moab is humbled in that day under the hand of Israel; and the land resteth eighty years.
31 And after him hath been Shamgar son of Anath, and he smiteth the Philistines -- six hundred men -- with an ox-goad, and he saveth -- he also -- Israel.
subgenius wrote:again...explain the beholden to man part all you have done here is dance....poorly
and the flood the earth vs a Tsunami is not splitting hairs...but hey lets us explore that idea what say you about Mt Vesuvius? obviously not a disagreeable act for you since God never said he would not spew lava all over people?
your absurdities are running their course my friend....can you explain why you believe and exclaim that God should be beholden to man or not?
waiting.......
Did you not listen during Primary?
1. God covenanted to not drowning humanity....again. (see 'Rainbow' on LDS.org) This is why I believe God covenanted to not drowning humanity....again. 2. Therefore He was beholden to humanity to not drown them. (see 'Rainbow' on LDS.org) This is why I believe God is beholden to humanity to not drown them....again. 3. In the Philippines He went back on His word and drowned them. (see 'Tsunami' on Google) This is why I believe He went back on His word and drowned them.
Why are you not getting this, it's fairly basic doctrine.
Rainbow An outward token of God’s covenant with Noah (Gen. 9:13; see also Ezek. 1:28; Rev. 4:3; 10:1). The rainbow no doubt existed before the Flood, but with Noah the rainbow took on a new significance as the token of the covenant. JST Gen. 9:17–25 enlarges the terms of the covenant to include not only that the earth will never again be covered with a flood of water, but also that the Zion of Enoch will return and the Lord will come again to dwell on the earth (see Gen. 9:11 note c, 15 note b; JST Gen. 9:21–25 [Appendix]).
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
1. God covenanted to not drowning humanity....again. (see 'Rainbow' on LDS.org) This is why I believe God covenanted to not drowning humanity....again.
Yawn...first-a covenant is specific to the behavior of each party involved...as in, God is beholden to a condition as long as the other party maintains their condition. So, explain the "covenant" for flooding the whole of earth and how that pertains to the Tsunami in the Philippines. Second - flooding the whole of earth for tens of days is dramatically different, not a splitting of hairs, than a Tsunami over about +/- 116k sq. miles of the Philippines. Tragic for those who lived there but not, by any measure, a compromise of the Flood "covenant".
Bazooka wrote:2. Therefore He was beholden to humanity to not drown them. (see 'Rainbow' on LDS.org) This is why I believe God is beholden to humanity to not drown them....again.
again....the "covenant" you speak of, and provide a link for, only states "waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh." - and unfortunately "all flesh" (not exclusive to humans) is not splitting hairs should a Tsunami kill 10 k out of about 6 billion people....that is .0000017 of the population at the time.
Bazooka wrote:3. In the Philippines He went back on His word and drowned them. (see 'Tsunami' on Google) This is why I believe He went back on His word and drowned them.
1. He did not contradict the covenant of Gensis 9 2. You believe incorrectly a.k.a. you are wrong
Bazooka wrote:Why are you not getting this, it's fairly basic doctrine.
basically wrong doctrine...in fact, it is not doctrine at all.
Rainbow An outward token of God’s covenant with Noah (Gen. 9:13; see also Ezek. 1:28; Rev. 4:3; 10:1). The rainbow no doubt existed before the Flood, but with Noah the rainbow took on a new significance as the token of the covenant. JST Gen. 9:17–25 enlarges the terms of the covenant to include not only that the earth will never again be covered with a flood of water, but also that the Zion of Enoch will return and the Lord will come again to dwell on the earth (see Gen. 9:11 note c, 15 note b; JST Gen. 9:21–25 [Appendix]).
http://www.LDS.org/scriptures/bd/rainbow?lang=eng[/quote] Tsunami does not come close to covering the earth with water...not even arguably close. If you want to split hairs i suggest you start with a head of hair because currently you are bald.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
subgenius wrote:Tsunami does not come close to covering the earth with water...not even arguably close.
I think you'll find it does for the people affected by the Tsunami....
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
subgenius wrote:Tsunami does not come close to covering the earth with water...not even arguably close.
I think you'll find it does for the people affected by the Tsunami....
the Philippines being 90% christian likely have a firm understanding of the doctrine here, and just like people along a river basin, etc. no one is nearly as confused as you are...but keep trying to "find" this non-existent covenant and non-existent transgression of said covenant.... nice dodge on all the issues though. seems like you could have saved some time if you just shook your fist at the sky....?
see also Jonah 4:1-5 1 But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he was very angry.
2 And he prayed unto the Lord, and said, I pray thee, O Lord, was not this my saying, when I was yet in my country? Therefore I fled before unto Tarshish: for I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil.
3 Therefore now, O Lord, take, I beseech thee, my life from me; for it is better for me to die than to live.
4 Then said the Lord, Doest thou well to be angry?
5 So Jonah went out of the city, and sat on the east side of the city, and there made him a booth, and sat under it in the shadow, till he might see what would become of the city.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
