Please quote for me the parts of the item you linked to that answer my specific questions, as they relateto your claim that the Bible prophecy is about the era following the two world wars.
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
Bazooka wrote:Please quote for me the parts of the item you linked to that answer my specific questions, as they relateto your claim that the Bible prophecy is about the era following the two world wars.
Nipper lacks the humility necessary to admit when he simply doesn't know the answer to a given question. He tries to compensate by "lying for the lord" but doesn't seem to realize by doing so he does more harm than good.
Surprise, surprise, there is no divine mandate for the Church to discuss and portray its history accurately. --Yahoo Bot
I pray thee, sir, forgive me for the mess. And whether I shot first, I'll not confess. --Han Solo, from William Shakespeare's Star Wars
Please quote for me the parts of the item you linked to that answer my specific questions, as they relateto your claim that the Bible prophecy is about the era following the two world wars.
Sorry, but the links I provided answer your 3 points. The question the Church has argued is if the prophetic message regarding Israel relates to the Jew or to the Christian. The reality is that it relates to BOTH. God is the LORD of ALL ---physical and spiritual. God is dealing with both the Jew and those He grafted in (Christians). To some He promised a physical land and to others God's promise is for eternal salvation. Jews that accept Christ appreciate both.
LittleNipper wrote:The Bible clearly states that Israel will be re-gathered from out of the nations of the world and brought back to the land of promise. This was a byproduct of World War I & II.
Atomic weapons were also a by product of World War 2, but the Bible says nothing about the potential for nuclear war in the Middle East...why not?
And then there's Holocaust, which destroyed approximately two thirds of "Israel" in Europe--what does the Bible have to say about the Holocaust?
LittleNipper wrote:The Bible is about the salvation message as it comes via the nation of Israel.
The single biggest factor in spreading the "salvation message" is the invention of the printing press and movable type, but the Bible says nothing about it...why not? The same goes for the rise of computers--what does the Bible have to say about the Internet?
LittleNipper wrote:There are modern implications in Bible prophecy. Read Ezekiel, Daniel, Revelation...
I have, many times. Ezekiel, Daniel, Revelation are so vague and so open to interpretation as to be virtually meaningless.
Surprise, surprise, there is no divine mandate for the Church to discuss and portray its history accurately. --Yahoo Bot
I pray thee, sir, forgive me for the mess. And whether I shot first, I'll not confess. --Han Solo, from William Shakespeare's Star Wars
Sorry, but the links I provided answer your 3 points. The question the Church has argued is if the prophetic message regarding Israel relates to the Jew or to the Christian. The reality is that it relates to BOTH. God is the LORD of ALL ---physical and spiritual. God is dealing with both the Jew and those He grafted in (Christians). To some He promised a physical land and to others God's promise is for eternal salvation. Jews that accept Christ appreciate both.
Nipper, this is a good example of one of your bad habits--an inability to admit it when you don't know the answer. Mormons have a name for this--"Lying for the Lord". Would you agree that "Lying for the Lord" does more harm than good?
Surprise, surprise, there is no divine mandate for the Church to discuss and portray its history accurately. --Yahoo Bot
I pray thee, sir, forgive me for the mess. And whether I shot first, I'll not confess. --Han Solo, from William Shakespeare's Star Wars
ludwigm wrote:What about THE STORY --- The First Prince of Wales --- ?
Was the story intended to demonstrate how divine prophecies are in reality "rigged"?
It was intended to demonstrate that the acting play - by Edward I of England - was based on the 1 Samuel 12 story.
* * * Or at least by the writer of that small essay.
It is from "Essential English for Foreign Students" by Eckersley, C. E., the four volume course I used fifty years ago...
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco - To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
Bazooka wrote: Please quote for me the parts of the item you linked to that answer my specific questions, as they relateto your claim that the Bible prophecy is about the era following the two world wars.
Sorry, but the links I provided answer your 3 points. The question the Church has argued is if the prophetic message regarding Israel relates to the Jew or to the Christian. The reality is that it relates to BOTH. God is the LORD of ALL ---physical and spiritual. God is dealing with both the Jew and those He grafted in (Christians). To some He promised a physical land and to others God's promise is for eternal salvation. Jews that accept Christ appreciate both.
In which case you will have no difficulty in posting the relevent excerpts from the article in your link against each of my 3 questions.....showing, of course, their relativity to the two world wars.
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
1 A son of a year [is] Saul in his reigning, yea, two years he hath reigned over Israel,
2 and Saul chooseth for himself three thousand [men] out of Israel; and two thousand are with Saul in Michmash, and in the hill-country of Beth-El; and a thousand have been with Jonathan in Gibeah of Benjamin; and the remnant of the people he hath sent each to his tents.
3 And Jonathan smiteth the garrison of the Philistines which [is] in Geba, and the Philistines hear, and Saul hath blown with a trumpet through all the land, saying, `Let the Hebrews hear.'
4 And all Israel have heard, saying, `Saul hath smitten the garrison of the Philistines,' and also, `Israel hath been abhorred by the Philistines;' and the people are called after Saul to Gilgal.
5 And the Philistines have been gathered to fight with Israel; thirty thousand chariots, and six thousand horsemen, and a people as the sand which [is] on the sea-shore for multitude; and they come up and encamp in Michmash, east of Beth-Aven.
6 And the men of Israel have seen that they are distressed, that the people hath been oppressed, and the people hide themselves in caves, and in thickets, and in rocks, and in high places, and in pits.
7 And Hebrews have passed over the Jordan to the land of Gad and Gilead; and Saul [is] yet in Gilgal, and all the people have trembled after him.
8 And he waiteth seven days, according to the appointment with Samuel, and Samuel hath not come to Gilgal, and the people are scattered from off him.
9 And Saul saith, `Bring nigh unto me the burnt-offering, and the peace-offerings;' and he causeth the burnt-offering to ascend.
10 And it cometh to pass at his completing to cause the burnt-offering to ascend, that lo, Samuel hath come, and Saul goeth out to meet him, to bless him;
11 and Samuel saith, `What hast thou done?' And Saul saith, `Because I saw that the people were scattered from off me, and thou hadst not come at the appointment of the days, and the Philistines are gathered to Michmash,
12 and I say, Now do the Philistines come down unto me to Gilgal, and the face of Jehovah I have not appeased; and I force myself, and cause the burnt-offering to ascend.'
13 And Samuel saith unto Saul, `Thou hast been foolish; thou hast not kept the command of Jehovah thy God, which He commanded thee, for now had Jehovah established thy kingdom over Israel unto the age;
14 and, now, thy kingdom doth not stand, Jehovah hath sought for Himself a man according to His own heart, and Jehovah chargeth him for leader over His people, for thou hast not kept that which Jehovah commanded thee.'
15 And Samuel riseth, and goeth up from Gilgal to Gibeah of Benjamin; and Saul inspecteth the people who are found with him, about six hundred men,
16 and Saul, and Jonathan his son, and the people who are found with them, are abiding in Gibeah of Benjamin, and the Philistines have encamped in Michmash.
17 And the destroyer goeth out from the camp of the Philistines -- three detachments; the one detachment turneth unto the way of Ophrah, unto the land of Shual;
18 and the one detachment turneth the way of Beth-Horon, and the one detachment turneth the way of the border which is looking on the valley of the Zeboim, toward the wilderness.
19 And an artificer is not found in all the land of Israel, for the Philistines said, `Lest the Hebrews make sword or spear;'
20 and all Israel go down to the Philistines, to sharpen each his ploughshare, and his coulter, and his axe, and his mattock;
21 and there hath been the file for mattocks, and for coulters, and for three-pronged rakes, and for the axes, and to set up the goads.
22 And it hath been, in the day of battle, that there hath not been found sword and spear in the hand of any of the people who [are] with Saul and with Jonathan -- and there is found to Saul and to Jonathan his son.
23 And the station of the Philistines goeth out unto the passage of Michmash.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1 Samuel 13:1-23 Saul had reigned for one year. In the second year of his reign, he selected three thousand special troops and took two thousand of them with him to Michmash and Mount Bethel while the other thousand remained with Jonathan, Saul’s son, in Gibeah in the land of Benjamin. The rest of the army was sent home. Jonathan attacked and destroyed the garrison of the Philistines at Geba. The news spread quickly throughout the land of the Philistines, and Saul sounded the call to arms throughout Israel. He announced that he had destroyed the Philistine garrison and warned his men that the army of Israel stank to high heaven as far as the Philistines were concerned. So the entire Israeli army mobilized again and joined at Gilgal. The Philistines recruited a mighty army of 30000 chariots, 6000 horsemen, and so many soldiers that they were as thick as sand along the seashore; and they camped at Michmash east of Beth-aven.
When the men of Israel saw the vast mass of enemy troops, they lost their nerve entirely and tried to hide in caves, thickets, coverts, among the rocks, and even in tombs and cisterns. Some of them crossed the Jordan River and escaped to the land of Gad and Gilead. Meanwhile, Saul stayed at Gilgal, and those who were with him trembled with fear at what awaited them. Samuel had told Saul earlier to wait seven days for his arrival, but when he still didn’t come, and Saul’s troops were rapidly slipping away, he decided to sacrifice the burnt offering and the peace offerings himself. But just as he was finishing, Samuel arrived. Saul went out to meet him and to receive his blessing, Samuel said, “What have you done?”
“Well,” Saul replied, “when I saw that my men were scattering from me, and that you hadn’t arrived by the time you said you would, and that the Philistines were at Michmash, ready for battle, I said, ‘The Philistines are ready to march against us and I haven’t even asked for the Lord’s help!’ So I reluctantly offered the burnt offering without waiting for you to arrive.”
“You fool!” Samuel exclaimed. “You have disobeyed the commandment of the Lord your God. He was planning to make you and your descendants kings of Israel forever, but now your dynasty must end; for the Lord wants a man who will obey him. And he has discovered the man he wants and has already appointed him as king over his people; for you have not obeyed the Lord’s commandment.”Samuel then left Gilgal and went to Gibeah in the land of Benjamin.
When Saul counted the soldiers who were still with him, he found only 600! Saul and Jonathan and these men set up their camp in Geba in the land of Benjamin; but the Philistines stayed at Michmash. Three companies of raiders soon left the camp of the Philistines; one went toward Ophrah in the land of Shual, another went to Beth-horon, and the third moved toward the border above the valley of Zeboim near the desert. There were no blacksmiths at all in the land of Israel in those days, for the Philistines wouldn’t allow them for fear of their making swords and spears for the Hebrews. For they had instruments for putting an edge on their ploughs and blades and forks and axes, and for putting iron points on their ox-driving rods. There was not a single sword or spear in the entire “army” of Israel that day, except for Saul’s and Jonathan’s. The mountain pass at Michmash being secured by a contingent of the Philistine army.
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1 A son of a year [is] Saul in his reigning, yea, two years he hath reigned over Israel,
2 and Saul chooseth for himself three thousand [men] out of Israel; and two thousand are with Saul in Michmash, and in the hill-country of Beth-El; and a thousand have been with Jonathan in Gibeah of Benjamin; and the remnant of the people he hath sent each to his tents.
3 And Jonathan smiteth the garrison of the Philistines which [is] in Geba, and the Philistines hear, and Saul hath blown with a trumpet through all the land, saying, `Let the Hebrews hear.'
4 And all Israel have heard, saying, `Saul hath smitten the garrison of the Philistines,' and also, `Israel hath been abhorred by the Philistines;' and the people are called after Saul to Gilgal.
5 And the Philistines have been gathered to fight with Israel; thirty thousand chariots, and six thousand horsemen, and a people as the sand which [is] on the sea-shore for multitude; and they come up and encamp in Michmash, east of Beth-Aven.
6 And the men of Israel have seen that they are distressed, that the people hath been oppressed, and the people hide themselves in caves, and in thickets, and in rocks, and in high places, and in pits.
7 And Hebrews have passed over the Jordan to the land of Gad and Gilead; and Saul [is] yet in Gilgal, and all the people have trembled after him.
8 And he waiteth seven days, according to the appointment with Samuel, and Samuel hath not come to Gilgal, and the people are scattered from off him.
9 And Saul saith, `Bring nigh unto me the burnt-offering, and the peace-offerings;' and he causeth the burnt-offering to ascend.
10 And it cometh to pass at his completing to cause the burnt-offering to ascend, that lo, Samuel hath come, and Saul goeth out to meet him, to bless him;
11 and Samuel saith, `What hast thou done?' And Saul saith, `Because I saw that the people were scattered from off me, and thou hadst not come at the appointment of the days, and the Philistines are gathered to Michmash,
12 and I say, Now do the Philistines come down unto me to Gilgal, and the face of Jehovah I have not appeased; and I force myself, and cause the burnt-offering to ascend.'
13 And Samuel saith unto Saul, `Thou hast been foolish; thou hast not kept the command of Jehovah thy God, which He commanded thee, for now had Jehovah established thy kingdom over Israel unto the age;
14 and, now, thy kingdom doth not stand, Jehovah hath sought for Himself a man according to His own heart, and Jehovah chargeth him for leader over His people, for thou hast not kept that which Jehovah commanded thee.'
15 And Samuel riseth, and goeth up from Gilgal to Gibeah of Benjamin; and Saul inspecteth the people who are found with him, about six hundred men,
16 and Saul, and Jonathan his son, and the people who are found with them, are abiding in Gibeah of Benjamin, and the Philistines have encamped in Michmash.
17 And the destroyer goeth out from the camp of the Philistines -- three detachments; the one detachment turneth unto the way of Ophrah, unto the land of Shual;
18 and the one detachment turneth the way of Beth-Horon, and the one detachment turneth the way of the border which is looking on the valley of the Zeboim, toward the wilderness.
19 And an artificer is not found in all the land of Israel, for the Philistines said, `Lest the Hebrews make sword or spear;'
20 and all Israel go down to the Philistines, to sharpen each his ploughshare, and his coulter, and his axe, and his mattock;
21 and there hath been the file for mattocks, and for coulters, and for three-pronged rakes, and for the axes, and to set up the goads.
22 And it hath been, in the day of battle, that there hath not been found sword and spear in the hand of any of the people who [are] with Saul and with Jonathan -- and there is found to Saul and to Jonathan his son.
23 And the station of the Philistines goeth out unto the passage of Michmash.