Maklelan: MAD's Version of Mark Hofmann?

[_SteelHead]

No the Bible is some made up piece of literature written by various authors at various times (there are no pre Babylonian exile copies of the Old Testament so around 600 bc for the Pentateuch) and 100 ad and later for the New Testament and compiled into a book even later.

The gospels are not attributable to the authors claimed, insertion of stories at later dates is well documented, and there are no primary sources to support the claims of jesus's life and ministry, ressurection or empty tomb.

That you like your mythology, does not make it any more special than anyone else's.

That my garage appears empty of invisible fire breathing pink dragons is proof that he is indeed invisible! Proof that my invisible dragon is real!

[_Megacles]

The testimony to the Bible's truth is validated by Christ's resurrection from the dead - and this is why I've brought this issue up. I would bet, of course, that you really don't believe that, right?

Are you a Mormon still?

Servant,

You remind me of someone called Jason15, with whom I recently spoke in the Celestial forum. I think it might help you if I modify your quote a bit:

The testimony to the Book of Mormon's truth is validated by Christ's resurrection from the dead - and this is why I've brought this issue up. I would bet, of course, that you really don't believe that, right?

Do you see how this circular methodology is not helpful?

[_Servant]

The testimony to the Bible's truth is validated by Christ's resurrection from the dead - and this is why I've brought this issue up. I would bet, of course, that you really don't believe that, right?

Are you a Mormon still?

Servant,

You remind me of someone called Jason15, with whom I recently spoke in the Celestial forum. I think it might help you if I modify your quote a bit:

The testimony to the Book of Mormon's truth is validated by Christ's resurrection from the dead - and this is why I've brought this issue up. I would bet, of course, that you really don't believe that, right?

Do you see how this circular methodology is not helpful?

I've never posted as anybody other than "Servant." So, do you also disbelieve the Bible, and are there any Mormons on this forum who actually believe the Bible?

The Book of Mormon is no more validated by Christ's resurrection than the Quran is validated by it.

[_Servant]

No the Bible is some made up piece of literature written by various authors at various times (there are no pre Babylonian exile copies of the Old Testament so around 600 bc for the Pentateuch) and 100 ad and later for the New Testament and compiled into a book even later.

The gospels are not attributable to the authors claimed, insertion of stories at later dates is well documented, and there are no primary sources to support the claims of jesus's life and ministry, ressurection or empty tomb.

That you like your mythology, does not make it any more special than anyone else's.

That my garage appears empty of invisible fire breathing pink dragons is proof that he is indeed invisible! Proof that my invisible dragon is real!

The difference between Christianity and Mormonism lies in the fact that Christianity deals with actual facts, a historical narrative. Mormonism is mythical. There can be no comparison, anymore than there is a comparison between the Encyclopedia Brittanica and Alice Through the Looking Glass!

[_SteelHead]

Which actual facts are those?

Please supply evidence for the Exodus.

The Bible is just as made up as the Book of Mormon.

[_Servant]

Which actual facts are those?

Please supply evidence for the Exodus.

The Bible is just as made up as the Book of Mormon.

If I wanted to discuss the Bible with you, friend, it wouldn't be here on a Mormon forum. You can come over to CARM, set, up an account, and we'll be glad to answer your questions. Thank you for your interest in the Bible.

[_Megacles]

I've never posted as anybody other than "Servant."

I was not accusing you of such, Servant.

So, do you also disbelieve the Bible, and are there any Mormons on this forum who actually believe the Bible?

I think you are mistaken about this forum, Servant. From what I have observed, almost all forum members here are no longer believing Mormons.

I am, however, and I hold the Bible to be the word of God, like all Mormons do.

The Book of Mormon is no more validated by Christ's resurrection than the Quran is validated by it.

I see. So just making assertions makes them true? What if I modified your quote like this:

The Bible is no more validated by Christ's resurrection than the Lord of the Rings is validated by it.

[_SteelHead]

No thanks.

But as a favor to you. Records of an event written 700 years after fact do not constitute historical documentation. The Bible does not serve as evidence for the Exodus.

I have no questions about the historicity of the Bible. It is obviously not historical.

[_maklelan]

No, you haven't honestly explained your beliefs.

That's completely untrue, and you can't even begin to show otherwise.

You just run around presenting yourself as an authority all over the net. In fact, I happened to be on Mormon Coffee the other day researching an issue for a post on CARM, and low and behold, I found your comments in the comment section. They went on and on, until finally Aaron posted this:

"Aaron Shafovaloff says:
July 6, 2011 at 4:44 pm

"Daniel writes (in the deleted comment),

'The ECFs were not Mormons, nor did they teach Mormon doctrines. My first ever publication in biblical studies was a warning to Latter-day Saints not to try to find LDS ideologies in Patristic literature.”

Thank you for that much, Daniel. Now what’s left is for you to reveal (and give a basic defense for) your own personal Mormon theology. Until then, no posting privileges. Put your cards on the table. ' "

Yes, Aaron is another person who has to hide behind this ludicrous notion that the evidence I provide is magically invalidated by my not answering all your demands about my religious beliefs.

Here's the link: http://blog.mrm.org/2011/06/clarifying- ... nt-page-2/

So apparently, I'm in good company (since I have great respect for Aaron as a very honest and fair human being) regarding the need for you to CLARIFY WHAT YOUR OWN BELIEFS ARE.

He is usually honest, but not fair at all, and not nearly as informed as he thinks he is (least of all about the Bible).

Furthermore, do you accept the Biblical narrative of Christ's resurrection from the dead as a real occurrence?

The fact that you have to hide behind this so as to avoid facing the numerous and demonstrable faults with the Bible and your tradition's reading of it is pretty bad, but that you would chase me all over the internet to convince yourself that you have a point is just grotesque.

[Guest]

Frankly, folks, I don't give a gosh darn if maklelan is a Wiccan and worships under a full moon somewhere out in a Utah forest! So what? This is a free country, he can be whatever he wants to be! However, when one presents himself as an authority, and comes to known Christian apologetic sites to "teach" us, then I believe most THINKING POSTERS have a right to know where maklelan stands in terms of his personal theological beliefs.

You can think that all you want, but it will never make it a legitimate concern. Also, remove my real name from this post or I will be using your real name from now on, complete with middle initial.

And I still want to know if maklelan believes in Christ's bodily resurrection from the dead, even if the Mormons here don't really seem to be interested. I'm a Christian, and regardless of how maklelan attempts to call me a "fundie" or whatever other derogatory hyperbole he wishes to apply to me, the fact is the resurrection of Christ is the central teaching of the Gospel. To deny it has grave consequences, at least within the Christian community. I'm beginning to wonder about the Mormons - isn't it important to you guys?

How important is your talking donkey?