Wife of MP blogs about the missionaries.....

[_Tim the Enchanter]

Then the vast majority of missionaries (domestic and abroad) are idiots.

I don't agree, and that is where I differ with you and the rest of the Mormon-haters on this board.

I don't think the vast majority of missionaries are idiots. I was stating that by your criteria (idiots don't have a contingency plan for returning home from mission service early) the vast majority of missionaries would be idiots (because they don't have independent means to leave missionary service early).

Why don't you spend your life in the pursuit of good will, good karma, good relationships, rather than hate?

I think I do. What have I expressed that is hateful?

[_Sethbag]

My point above has been made, once again. Counseling, lecturing, cajoing, guilting, hectoring is part of religious faith. If you don't want to be hectored by your rabbi, then get out.

And you've just shown once again that you have trouble understanding how real humans operate. I'm not sure why.

I'll defend Bot on this one. None of what Bot said on this is wrong, IMHO. He may overstate the ability of some adults to make those decisions for their own reasons rather than the reasons they were conditioned to follow, but that's true of all sorts of things in life.

We are conditioned every day by ads on TV, billboards, magazines, etc. to buy things that we may or may not need. Most of us manage not to buy those things if we really don't want them, but advertising obviously works, or it wouldn't be this multi-billion dollar industry.

Should a Ford F-150 truck owner be all upset that he bought that truck after seeing Ford F-150 commercials on TV for so long that the seed of the purchase was originally planted by people intent on swaying him in that direction?

[_Runtu]

As for me, I've done precisely what Yahoo Bot has said we all have the right to do, and decided for myself not to participate in the Mormon church anymore. To be honest, I don't disagree with Bob on this point.

So have I. Where I differ with Bob is that I don't believe most 18 and 19 year old missionaries have the confidence and self-awareness to step back from cultural conditioning and make that kind of decision in the face of so much pressure to the contrary. It happens, but it's pretty rare.

[_sock puppet]

The Church is a collection of adults who can decide for themselves.

But who are often counseled, lectured, cajoled, guilted, etc. not to.

My point above has been made, once again. Counseling, lecturing, cajoing, guilting, hectoring is part of religious faith. If you don't want to be hectored by your rabbi, then get out. I choose to spend one hour a week in my high priest's group getting hectored.

I'm sure that an 18 or 19 year old could withstand 1 hour a week too, even by someone 30 or 40 years older, in a position of authority, and could think for himself. There are 167 other hours in the week to be away from those pressures, in places and on terms of your own choosing, within which that 1 hour a week can be evaluated and put in one's own individual perspective.

On a mission, however, the circumstances are different. All 168 hours a week, there's a companion part of whose charge is to encourage, cajole and guilt the 18 or 19 year old into staying. He is living in a place and under circumstances not of his own whim and design. There is no "safe", personal place for 167 hours a week from which vantage point he can evaluate 1 hour of cajoling.

[_Sethbag]

Then the vast majority of missionaries (domestic and abroad) are idiots.

I don't agree, and that is where I differ with you and the rest of the Mormon-haters on this board.

Why don't you spend your life in the pursuit of good will, good karma, good relationships, rather than hate?

Ok, this I will not defend. You snipped his comments and present his "most missionaries are idiots" comment out of context.

The context was him replying to you that one would have to be an idiot to travel to a foreign land with no contingency in place for getting home if one decided to pop smoke early. He then pointed out that most missionaries, by this logic, are idiots. This is undoubtedly true. Or are you honestly going to argue that most LDS foreign-country missionaries embark on their missions with sufficient reserve cash to be able to purchase travel back to their homes from wherever the hell they happen to be, should they decide to bail on their mission? Because I certainly couldn't have gotten home from Switzerland on my own, and I didn't know anyone on my mission who could have.

[_Runtu]

Ok, this I will not defend. You snipped his comments and present his "most missionaries are idiots" comment out of context.

That's called trolling.

The context was him replying to you that one would have to be an idiot to travel to a foreign land with no contingency in place for getting home if one decided to pop smoke early. He then pointed out that most missionaries, by this logic, are idiots. This is undoubtedly true. Or are you honestly going to argue that most LDS foreign-country missionaries embark on their missions with sufficient reserve cash to be able to purchase travel back to their homes from wherever the hell they happen to be, should they decide to bail on their mission? Because I certainly couldn't have gotten home from Switzerland on my own, and I didn't know anyone on my mission who could have.

Looks like it worked.

[_Untethered]

Part of the problem with many of you folks on this board is that you seem to assume that adults of any stripe just can't think for themselves or make decisions on their own, and that the Church is a big paternal organization that should be a good parent and protect adults from hurting themselves.

Actually, I assume just the opposite. Adults absolutely should/do think and make decisions on their own! And, as you made the example, "management" isn't always happy with it. Sometimes there are life long consequences. Was your employment example a family business? Can you see how the consequences of leaving would be different? Again, can you imagine how your employment situation would have gone down had you been 19 and in a family business? Would it have been the same in your estimation?

Give the missionaries some credit. Also, give them the expectation that they ought to be dealing with illness as adults, not as dependent children.

I give them credit, and I don't look at them as dependent children, I look at them as young adults who often lack judgement and experience. I'm glad for you that your children (adults) were successful.

I hope the Colorado blog was more a overly dramatized perspective than a true example of current missionary culture.

[_Yahoo Bot]

I think I do. What have I expressed that is hateful?

Subtle mockery is more effective a communication genre than the type Shulem uses. Why waste your time?

[_Runtu]

Subtle mockery is more effective a communication genre than the type Shulem uses. Why waste your time?

Yep, Jesus taught us to subtly mock one another. I think it's in the Beatitudes somewhere.

[_Yahoo Bot]

Subtle mockery is more effective a communication genre than the type Shulem uses. Why waste your time?

Yep, Jesus taught us to subtly mock one another. I think it's in the Beatitudes somewhere.

Too bad. At one time life held such promise for you. But, it is just my opinion which you can ignore.

I'm over my quota per this month, so my therapist says.