Bazooka wrote:Read on to hear how God has sex with his own daughter to create a Saviour even though he showed with Adam he could create beings without fornication.
You're certainly not suggesting that this is all made up and the points don't matter? Here, Zookie...this will explain it all for you! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB3g6mXLEKk
One must take each verse in biblical context and not entirely on face value. What was said, how was it said, who said it and why? Did God say it or man in a time of discouragement (even like Job). The Bible presents both truth and lies, but the Bible does not present lies as eternal truth and truth as a damnable lie. The understanding of the Bible comes from God to a person seeking God. This involves not a superficial reading of the Bible but an in-depth study of what one is written there. The mind of God is what a believer wants. The person finding fault will apply opinion.
Example: By earth are we speaking of general material or this planet? God created the heavens and the earth. This could be read as Space and Matter. Earth can be this planet or it can be referring to the fabric of the universe. Heaven can be the air and sky or outer space, or God's home in another dimension. Hell can be a garbage dump, the grave, or a place of endless torment. What is truth concerning one is not necessarily the truth for all.
LittleNipper wrote:One must take each verse in biblical context and not entirely on face value.
What you really mean is that one must take each verse in what you decide is Biblical context. In all these pages you have failed to demonstrate an ability to accept an opinion that isn't your own. You have yet to show that you have the ability to acknowledge that you might be wrong in your understanding and interpretation. You don't want discussion, you want people to agree with you. You want to preach.
*yawn*
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
LittleNipper wrote:One must take each verse in biblical context and not entirely on face value.
What you really mean is that one must take each verse in what you decide is Biblical context. In all these pages you have failed to demonstrate an ability to accept an opinion that isn't your own. You have yet to show that you have the ability to acknowledge that you might be wrong in your understanding and interpretation. You don't want discussion, you want people to agree with you. You want to preach.
*yawn*
No, one must understand a verse in light of the entire Chapter or the book involved. So far I've really had no one disagree with my synopsis of the various chapters paraphrased. I do at times get people who say that they don't believe it. They present excuses and not a conflicting review of what the Bible says. So, I must conclude that we all agree that the Bible is clear in its presentation. Any person can say they don't believe what the Bible says. The problem is proving that the Bible is wrong or has been misunderstood. Saying, "I don't believe that" is really not constructive nor enlightening.
Last edited by Guest on Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
LittleNipper wrote: So far I've really had no one disagree with my synopsis of the various chapters I has paraphrased.
How'd you squeeze that out of what I said, doc? --- (c) Foundation and Empire by Isaac Asimov.
LittleNipper wrote:So, I must conclude that we all agree that the Bible is clear in its presentation.
False conclusion. You are a lunatic, and before this were moved to Outer Darkness, I have to stress this is not a personal attack of you but a mere diagnose.
LittleNipper wrote:Saying, "I don't believe that" is really not constructive nor enlightening.
Saying, "I believe that" is really not constructive nor enlightening.
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco - To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
LittleNipper wrote: So far I've really had no one disagree with my synopsis of the various chapters I has paraphrased.
How'd you squeeze that out of what I said, doc? --- (c) Foundation and Empire by Isaac Asimov.
LittleNipper wrote:So, I must conclude that we all agree that the Bible is clear in its presentation.
False conclusion. You are a lunatic, and before this were moved to Outer Darkness, I have to stress this is not a personal attack of you but a mere diagnose.
LittleNipper wrote:Saying, "I don't believe that" is really not constructive nor enlightening.
Saying, "I believe that" is really not constructive nor enlightening.
I've explained why I believe what I believe. God created the Universe and life. There is no other logical explanation. If life just "happened" then it should still simply "happen." And so far only "lunatics" believe that they can create life ------ which they've not been able to do. So unless you can create life, I would suggest that your view that there is no God is rather precarious ---- to say the least. This is not a personal attack but an astute observation.
Job 8:1-22 Bildad from Shuhah spoke next: “How can you keep talking this way? You’re saying nonsense, and loudly at that. Does God make errors? Does God ever get things backward? Your children may have sinned against him — otherwise, why would God have punished them? You need to do this immediately: pray before God Almighty. If you’re innocent and upright as you say, it’s not too late—he’ll run to you; he’ll set everything right, reestablish your fortunes. Even though your present circumstances are meager, you’ll end up better than ever."
“Question our ancestors, study what they learned from their forefathers. We're new at this, with lots to learn, with little time to get it. Let the ancients teach you, tell you what’s wrong, teach you in what they understood from experience? Can bulrushes grow tall without soil? Can reeds flourish without water? What happens to all who forget God— all their hopes mean nothing. They hang their life upon a thread, their fate a spider's web. They’re like weeds springing up, invading a garden, Spreading everywhere, overtaking the flowers, getting a foothold among rocks. But when the gardener rips them out by the roots, the garden doesn’t miss them one bit. The sooner the godless are gone, the better; then good plants can grow in their place.
“There’s no way God will reject a good person, and there is no way he’ll assist evil. God will bring you joy; you’ll shout for joy, With your enemies thoroughly discredited, their house of cards collapsed.”
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1 And Bildad the Shuhite answereth and saith: --
2 Till when dost thou speak these things? And a strong wind -- sayings of thy mouth?
3 Doth God pervert judgment? And doth the Mighty One pervert justice?
4 If thy sons have sinned before Him, And He doth send them away, By the hand of their transgression,
5 If thou dost seek early unto God, And unto the Mighty makest supplication,
6 If pure and upright thou [art], Surely now He waketh for thee, And hath completed The habitation of thy righteousness.
7 And thy beginning hath been small, And thy latter end is very great.
8 For, ask I pray thee of a former generation, And prepare to a search of their fathers,
9 (For of yesterday we [are], and we know not, For a shadow [are] our days on earth.)
10 Do they not shew thee -- speak to thee, And from their heart bring forth words?
11 `Doth a rush wise without mire? A reed increase without water?
12 While it [is] in its budding -- uncropt, Even before any herb it withereth.
13 So [are] the paths of all forgetting God, And the hope of the profane doth perish,
14 Whose confidence is loathsome, And the house of a spider his trust.
15 He leaneth on his house -- and it standeth not: He taketh hold on it -- and it abideth not.
16 Green he [is] before the sun, And over his garden his branch goeth out.
17 By a heap his roots are wrapped, A house of stones he looketh for.
18 If [one] doth destroy him from his place, Then it hath feigned concerning him, I have not seen thee!
19 Lo, this [is] the joy of his way, And from the dust others spring up.'
20 Lo, God doth not reject the perfect, Nor taketh hold on the hand of evil doers.
21 While he filleth with laughter thy mouth, And thy lips with shouting,
22 Those hating thee do put on shame, And the tent of the wicked is not!
Job 9:1-35 Job spoke again: “I realize this is true in principle. But how can a person be innocent in God’s sight? If someone wished to take God to task, would it be possible to answer him even once in a thousand times? God is wise and so mighty. Who has ever challenged him successfully?
Without warning, he moves mountains, overturning them in anger. He shakes the ground from its place, its foundations tremble.
If he so commands, the sun won’t rise and the stars won’t shine. By Himself he stretched out the heavens and marches on sea waves.
He created all the stars—the Bear and Orion, the Pleiades and the constellations in the southern sky.
He does marvelous things beyond our understand. He performs miracles without number.
Yet when he comes close, I cannot see him. When he moves, I do not see him go.
If he cause someone to die, who can prevent him? Who dares to ask, ‘Who do you think you are?’
Once angered He will not be held back. Even allies of the proud bow under his feet.
What am I, that I should attempt to answer or even reason with God?
Even if totally correct, what defense have I? I'd only beg for mercy.
If I called him and he responded, I’m unsure he would listen to me.
He attacks me with a storm and repeatedly wounds me without cause.
He will not give me a break, but increases my bitter sorrows.
If it’s a matter of power, he’s the strong one. If it’s a matter of justice, who can summon him to court?
Though innocent, my mouth would pronounce me guilty. Though blameless, it would prove me wicked.
I am innocent, but it doesn't matter to me— I hate my life.
Innocent or evil, it is all the same to God. This is why I say, ‘He is destroying the blameless and the wicked.’
When a plague comes, he laughs at the problems of the innocent.
The whole earth is controlled by the wicked, and God blinds the judges' perception. If it is not God who does it, who is?
My life passes faster than a sprinter --- passing away without any happiness.
It sails away as a boat of reeds, like an eagle swoops down on its prey.
If I decided to forget my problems -- put away my sad face and be cheerful,
I would still dread this nagging pain, for I know God will not find me innocent.
Whatever happens, I will be found guilty. So what’s the point?
Even if I cleanse myself with soap and clean my hands in lye,
God would plunge me into poop, and my own filthy rags would hate me.
God is not a mortal, I cannot argue with him or take him to trial.
If only there were someone like us between God and us --- a savior who could bring us together.
This mediator could make God cease His attacks, I would no longer be in horror of punishment.
I could speak to this one without being afraid. I cannot do such under my own power."
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1 And Job answereth and saith: --
2 Truly I have known that [it is] so, And what -- is man righteous with God?
3 If he delight to strive with Him -- He doth not answer him one of a thousand.
4 Wise in heart and strong in power -- Who hath hardened toward Him and is at peace?
5 Who is removing mountains, And they have not known, Who hath overturned them in His anger.
6 Who is shaking earth from its place, And its pillars move themselves.
7 Who is speaking to the sun, and it riseth not, And the stars He sealeth up.
8 Stretching out the heavens by Himself, And treading on the heights of the sea,
9 Making Osh, Kesil, and Kimah, And the inner chambers of the south.
10 Doing great things till there is no searching, And wonderful, till there is no numbering.
11 Lo, He goeth over by me, and I see not, And He passeth on, and I attend not to it.
12 Lo, He snatches away, who bringeth it back? Who saith unto Him, `What dost Thou?'
13 God doth not turn back His anger, Under Him bowed have proud helpers.
14 How much less do I -- I answer Him? Choose out my words with Him?
15 Whom, though I were righteous, I answer not, For my judgment I make supplication.
16 Though I had called and He answereth me, I do not believe that He giveth ear [to] my voice.
17 Because with a tempest He bruiseth me, And hath multiplied my wounds for nought.
18 He permitteth me not to refresh my spirit, But filleth me with bitter things.
19 If of power, lo, the Strong One; And if of judgment -- who doth convene me?
20 If I be righteous, Mine mouth doth declare me wicked, Perfect I am! -- it declareth me perverse.
21 Perfect I am! -- I know not my soul, I despise my life.
22 It is the same thing, therefore I said, `The perfect and the wicked He is consuming.'
23 If a scourge doth put to death suddenly, At the trial of the innocent He laugheth.
24 Earth hath been given Into the hand of the wicked one. The face of its judges he covereth, If not -- where, who [is] he?
25 My days have been swifter than a runner, They have fled, they have not seen good,
26 They have passed on with ships of reed, As an eagle darteth on food.
27 Though I say, `I forget my talking, I forsake my corner, and I brighten up!'
28 I have been afraid of all my griefs, I have known that Thou dost not acquit me.
29 I -- I am become wicked; why [is] this? [In] vain I labour.
30 If I have washed myself with snow-water, And purified with soap my hands,
31 Then in corruption Thou dost dip me, And my garments have abominated me.
32 But if a man like myself -- I answer him, We come together into judgment.
33 If there were between us an umpire, He doth place his hand on us both.
34 He doth turn aside from off me his rod, And His terror doth not make me afraid,
35 I speak, and do not fear Him, But I am not right with myself.
LittleNipper wrote:God created the Universe and life. There is no other logical explanation. If life just "happened" then it should still simply "happen." And so far only "lunatics" believe that they can create life ------ which they've not been able to do. So unless you can create life, I would suggest that your view that there is no God is rather precarious ---- to say the least. This is not a personal attack but an astute observation.
Nipper, I've created life. I watched a programme last night where some Elk created life. Stars are being created and are dying as we speak. People can clone and artificially inseminate. People have created 'artificial' intelligence.
Doesn't the fact that I've been able to create life negate the need for your God?
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
LittleNipper wrote:God created the Universe and life. There is no other logical explanation. If life just "happened" then it should still simply "happen." And so far only "lunatics" believe that they can create life ------ which they've not been able to do. So unless you can create life, I would suggest that your view that there is no God is rather precarious ---- to say the least. This is not a personal attack but an astute observation.
Nipper, I've created life. I watched a programme last night where some Elk created life. Stars are being created and are dying as we speak. People can clone and artificially inseminate. People have created 'artificial' intelligence.
Doesn't the fact that I've been able to create life negate the need for your God?
You procreated. You needed a live sperm and a live egg to procreate a human baby. I'll give you some minerals, water and electricity and you could not create life. Find a three day old dead person and you could not bring him back to life. Without an already existing living element you cannot fabricate another biological entity. Robots do not care. They do not live anymore than a house is a living thing. Intelligence that is programmable is not spontaneously motivated nor independent. And if you cannot fabricate life using you're noodle, how can you even imagine life happening by mere chance without any assistance or imagination??????????????????????????????????? GOD is the only logical universal explanation. PLUS, if it takes human ingenuity to fabricate a computer/robot; how can anyone with any brain think that the Robot might just believe it did not need a MAN to have establish its origin? {C3PO to R2D2 > "Man never created us. We simply spontaneously popped into existence!"}
