5 reasons to suspect Jesus never existed...

[_SteelHead]

You provided evidence.... Of what? Flavius's testimony?

Wheeee. That so does not provide any evidence for the gospels as historical.

Keep trying, and keep representing Jesus so well.

[_RedJacket]

I read it as sarcasm.

Interesting. I guess it says more about your interpretation instead of taking the words at face value.

That said, sarcasm and irony is often difficult to pick up on and easily misinterpreted. For example, for a long time I've been of the opinion that the Centurion's claim that Jesus was the Christ was actually meant to be sarcastic, however taken at face value it's a claim of faith. Unfortunately we can't talk to the person who came up with the story, so we have no way of knowing.

[_RedJacket]

Hi again Steel!

My 4 year old niece is burdened with actual knowledge of the tooth fairy.

I continue to be surprised (and a little disappointed to be honest with you) how many times these silly and mocking comparisons are trotted out on this board - by the good people that happen to be in your particular camp.

for what it's worth - I think y'all should have a private meeting and openly discuss what you all really think it does when you compare a belief in a Creator/God with phrases like "tooth fairy" "Santa" "Flying spaghetti monster" "4 year old child" etc.

Is it a blatant attempt to mock?
Is it a sincere effort to help us believers see how foolish we are?
Is it done to block and or stop sharing with one another?
Is it a performance aimed at a certain audience?

Thanks in advance for the replies.

Peace,
Ceeboo

Is it a blatant attempt to mock? No. I have no interest in mocking believers, I just believe differently.

Is it a sincere effort to help us believers see how foolish we are? No. I have no interest in changing the opinions of believers and I highly doubt discussion boards are very effective venues for such changes, even if I did which I don't.

Is it done to block and or stop sharing with one another? No and I don't see how it could, it seems to be the opposite of blocking it seems to be sharing opinions and thoughts.

Is it a performance aimed at a certain audience? Maybe, although I guess the act of writing online is by its nature a performance aimed at a certain audience.

Do I personally view belief in God to be comparable with other myths and fairy tales? Yes.

Is my view informed by any desire to do any of the above? Consciously I would say no.

Is profession of belief in a God on these boards intended and designed to achieve any of the aims you describe above?

Ceeboo, what is the difference between claiming knowledge of a deity, and knowledge of the tooth ferry?

How does that work?
I ask you several questions and in your reply to me - you don't answer a single one ............. but you ask me a question?

Anyway, to answer your question - There is no difference.

Now, I would ask you a question about your thoughts/opinion about equating and/or comparing the belief in a Creator/God to the belief in the tooth fairy - but - that would probably only prompt you to ask me another question.

by the way: It's the tooth fairy - not tooth ferry (That would be a boat carrying a bunch of teeth)

Peace,
Ceeboo

As far as answering questions with questions I can't think of anything more "Christlike". The Jesus character in the Bible had a habit of doing the same thing, which does seem to annoy quite a lot of people.

So do you agree that belief in God and other myths is comparable? Or was that just a dismissive response without actually engaging the topic. Are the responses above a blatant attempt to mock? a sincere effort to help us unbelievers see how foolish we are? Is it done to block and or stop sharing with one another? Or is it a performance aimed at a certain audience?

I think it's all too easy to project the worst onto anonymous internet posters. Maybe there is a lot of truth in that for many posters. As a rule of thumb I prefer giving posters the most charitable interpretation that I possibly can.

[_Ceeboo]

Morning Steel!

Sorry about the typo. Autocorrect and a lack of proof reading are my nemeses.

No problem!
I figured it was just a typo - I just mentioned it because I had this bizarre vision of a boat carrying teeth and wanted to share.

I equate belief with the tooth fairy with belief in deity because belief in either is of the same nature; belief in that which is undemonstrated, and unfalsifiable.

As such I will compare his profession of knowledge about the actual facts of the life of Jesus, with a 5 year old's belief in the tooth fairy. There are 0 hard facts in hand about the life of Jesus. Equivalent with the amount available for the fairy

Fair enough.

Thanks for the response!

Peace,
Ceeboo

[_Ceeboo]

Hi RedJacket

Is it a blatant attempt to mock? No. I have no interest in mocking believers, I just believe differently.

I wonder if you realize what you wrote there?

Is it done to block and or stop sharing with one another? No and I don't see how it could, it seems to be the opposite of blocking it seems to be sharing opinions and thoughts.

You don't think that an exchange (between someone who believes in a Creator/God and someone who does not) can be stopped/altered/blocked if and when the the non-believer throws "tooth fairy" or "Easter Bunny" in the conversation?

for what it's worth - I certainly do.

Is it a performance aimed at a certain audience? Maybe, although I guess the act of writing online is by its nature a performance aimed at a certain audience.

Maybe?

Do I personally view belief in God to be comparable with other myths and fairy tales? Yes.

I don't.
As a matter of opinion - I think a belief in a Creator/God is as sound and as rational (if not more so) than any other option I am aware of.

What is it that you believe?

Is profession of belief in a God on these boards intended and designed to achieve any of the aims you describe above?

On the MDB?.......... Heavens no!

As far as answering questions with questions I can't think of anything more "Christlike".

Uhhhhhhhh - I can't think of anything more Christlike than that either. :confused

So do you agree that belief in God and other myths is comparable?

No, not only do I think they are not comparable - I personally find it absurd to do so. (And - far too often in my opinion - the projected absurdity is intentional and by design)

Or was that just a dismissive response without actually engaging the topic.

Not only do I frequently engage topics - I always try my best to engage people - which in my opinion - is often much more valuable and mutually rewarding than engaging topics. To be honest with you though - there are times I fail at one or both.

Are the responses above a blatant attempt to mock?

No

a sincere effort to help us unbelievers see how foolish we are?

No

Is it done to block and or stop sharing with one another?

No

Or is it a performance aimed at a certain audience?

No

I think it's all too easy to project the worst onto anonymous internet posters.

I agree

As a rule of thumb I prefer giving posters the most charitable interpretation that I possibly can.

Cool!
Do you think you did that for me in this exchange?


Peace,
Ceeboo

[_ludwigm]

Sorry about the typo. Autocorrect and a lack of proof reading are my nemeses.

Nemesis --- Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia wrote: "Redirected from Nemeses"

Morning Steel!

No problem!
I figured it was just a typo - I just mentioned it because I had this bizarre vision of a boat carrying teeth and wanted to share.

You are lucky... my bizarre visions are end up in Outer Darkness (see Your comment: viewtopic.php?p=878371#p878371 )

[_SteelHead]

Nemeses is plural of nemesis.

[_ludwigm]

Nemeses is plural of nemesis.

I didn't know it, sorry!



There are weird rules for plurals...
OK, fora is a plural of forum, because of Latin.
Then, plural of coach should be formed by ~k Hungarian suffix... [French coche, from obsolete German Kotsche, from Hungarian kocsi, after Kocs, a town of northwest Hungary (where such carriages were first made).]

[_KevinSim]

The creators of the Norse Legends, the creator of the Greek Legends, J.R.R. Tolkien, and the creator of the Gilgamesh legend; didn't promote Odin, Zeus, Eru, and Aruru, respectively; as a deity who would grant any righteous request as long as the requester had enough faith. The authors of the Christian scriptures did.

Aside from being completely incorrect (you really don't stick your head out of your very small Mormon bubble very often do you?), are you actually saying that the reason you believe christian mythology (over other religious mythology) is because the creators promoted Christ as a deity who would grant any righteous request as long as you have enough faith?

No I am not. I am saying that the reason I believe Jesus actually existed, for a combination of two reasons, one being because the writers of the Christian gospels promoted God the Father "as a deity who would grant any righteous request as long as you have enough faith," and the other because those same writers made a clear record of Jesus uttering on the cross a statement indicating He thought God the Father was not granting His request. The statement quoted in Matthew 27:46, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" is a clear indication that Jesus expected his God to rescue Him from the cross. Why in the world would the writers of the Christian gospels, who presumably were trying to convince their readers that Jesus recognized the need for Him to remain on the cross until His death, quote a statement by Jesus that seemed to indicate God had forsaken Him by not taking Him down from the cross? I can't see why any rational fabricator of Jesus' story would quote Him as saying such a thing, and can only conclude that an actual Jesus did exist and did say such a thing.

I did and it is.

Either you haven't thought through the reasons why you worship Christ particularly deeply or you have no real reason to worship Christ over Zeus (or any of the other 100s of deities who, according to the myths, grant requests to faithful worshipers) beyond the coincidence that you happened to be born into christianity.

I'll say it again, this is not why I worship Christ; this is why I believe Jesus actually existed. By the way, I was born into Mormonism; thanks for the compliment you gave me by saying that I was born into Christianity; there are a lot of people who would say by being born into Mormonism I was not born into Christianity!

[_KevinSim]

I know that a lot of criticism has been directed your way, but I want you to know that I'm not trying to make you feel down on yourself. I just wanted to try to give you a bit more insight to the children who wear the labels we adults put on them.

And I just wanted to try to give IHAQ a bit more insight to the women who he wanted to wear his labels.

Thanks for hearing me out, Kevin.

You're welcome!