Joseph Smith, Salvation, and Authority

[Guest]

One thing I find fascinating (and that I was hitherto unaware of) is Brigham Young's view that Joseph Smith is one of the "angels who stand as sentinels" one must pass, and whose approbation one must obtain, before entering through the veil into the presence of God.

Since there are multiple sentinels, are we to presume the rest are subsequent presidents of the LDS Church?

I hadn't heard that quote either. I wonder if at the 'end of the line', in regards to the sentinels, is Jesus Christ himself. We read that He is the gatekeeper and is the final arbitrator/judge.

Yesterday I drove up to West Point, NY. I'm in Hackensack, New Jersey visiting one of my kids and I borrowed her car. At the entry point to the town within a town there was a sentinel. He checked things out. He gave his OK. I went on to a second checkpoint. A bit more checking was done. I was let in.

Something similar, possibly?

Regards,
MG

[_mentalgymnast]

Please do not hesitate to chime in when you see something amiss.

It should work both ways, right? I have more than ample opportunity to have my own views, etc., pointed out as being 'amiss'.

I figure every once in a while it doesn't hurt to keep you guys on your toes.

Wearing hats in the afterlife as a requirement to get into heaven and such... That may deserve some comment, along with a bunch of other stuff here and there. Time and inclination are limited, however.

How much do you guys get away with here when folks like me aren't normally around all the time?

Regards,
MG

[_Fence Sitter]

I hadn't heard that quote either. I wonder if at the 'end of the line', in regards to the sentinels, is Jesus Christ himself. We read that He is the gatekeeper and is the final arbitrator/judge.

Yesterday I drove up to West Point, NY. I'm in Hackensack, New Jersey visiting one of my kids and I borrowed her car. At the entry point to the town within a town there was a sentinel. He checked things out. He gave his OK. I went on to a second checkpoint. A bit more checking was done. I was let in.

Something similar, possibly?

Regards,
MG

What is the point of a sentinel or sentinels guarding heaven when God is omnipotent and omniscient? Seriously, it makes heaven sound so boring God has to make up useless stuff for people to do.

[_fetchface]

So what happens if you punch Joseph in the face when you get to him? I'm guessing you don't get to enter heaven?

[_Chap]

One thing I find fascinating (and that I was hitherto unaware of) is Brigham Young's view that Joseph Smith is one of the "angels who stand as sentinels" one must pass, and whose approbation one must obtain, before entering through the veil into the presence of God.

Since there are multiple sentinels, are we to presume the rest are subsequent presidents of the LDS Church?

I hadn't heard that quote either. I wonder if at the 'end of the line', in regards to the sentinels, is Jesus Christ himself. We read that He is the gatekeeper and is the final arbitrator/judge.

Yesterday I drove up to West Point, NY. I'm in Hackensack, New Jersey visiting one of my kids and I borrowed her car. At the entry point to the town within a town there was a sentinel. He checked things out. He gave his OK. I went on to a second checkpoint. A bit more checking was done. I was let in.

Something similar, possibly?

Regards,
MG

Yes, but even if you are right, you won't get to Jesus if you don't get past Joseph Smith.

And frankly, the picture Brigham Young paints of the situation does not involve Joseph Smith as a guy who just nods and waves people past ...

[_mentalgymnast]

Yes, but even if you are right, you won't get to Jesus if you don't get past Joseph Smith.

And frankly, the picture Brigham Young paints of the situation does not involve Joseph Smith as a guy who just nods and waves people past ...

I wouldn't invest all of my faith in the 'heaven market' based upon everything Brigham Young said.

Regards,
MG

[_mentalgymnast]

So what happens if you punch Joseph in the face when you get to him? I'm guessing you don't get to enter heaven?

Knowing what we know about Joseph, he'd punch you right back. That might get some attention on up the line. I wonder if Jesus would frown or smile? Or just laugh.

by the way, I don't think the system and/or afterlife operations is/are set up where there is an actual 'line' in the sense of a reception line where you just kind of go through and introduce yourself and that's that.

Regards,
MG

[_zeezrom]

So what happens if you punch Joseph in the face when you get to him? I'm guessing you don't get to enter heaven?

If you had it in your heart to punch Joseph, you probably wouldn't have gotten to the point of having a body and therefore, the punch would be less than effective. The question is, would it be possible to punch him without premeditation? If so, you could get your body, then decide to punch him. But would God foresee you were going to punch him and prevent you from getting your body?

[_Chap]

Yes, but even if you are right, you won't get to Jesus if you don't get past Joseph Smith.

And frankly, the picture Brigham Young paints of the situation does not involve Joseph Smith as a guy who just nods and waves people past ...

I wouldn't invest all of my faith in the 'heaven market' based upon everything Brigham Young said.

Regards,
MG

Uh-huh. Well, he was only the prophet divinely designated to lead the church after Joseph Smith's death, so I suppose he didn't really know much about Mormonism. And it would be unreasonable to have expected that his utterances were in any way divinely inspired.

So when he said explicitly and in terms who you have to get past to be admitted to heaven,
I'm sure that everybody in his congregation that day just said:



And no doubt good ole' Briggy would have been cool with that.

But ... seeing that getting into heaven is a Rather Important Question, can you refer me to any statement by a more authoritative source, specifically dealing with the question of Joseph Smith as a celestial gatekeeper, that supersedes the clear teaching of the prophet Brigham Young?

[_mentalgymnast]

...seeing that getting into heaven is a Rather Important Question, can you refer me to any statement by a more authoritative source, specifically dealing with the question of Joseph Smith as a celestial gatekeeper, that supersedes the clear teaching of the prophet Brigham Young?

If Joseph does play a part in the system of operations that have to do with Celestial Kingdom admittance I would simply say...I think God/Jesus would be playing a larger role that supercedes whatever part Joseph plays, large or small. Methinks you're making a mountain out of a molehill. Seems to happen at times around here.

Off to catch a plane to Utah in a bit. Catch you later.

Regards,
MG