Egyptian in America?

[_Kishkumen]

As you know from prior postings, I and my colleague, consiglieri, have been unfolding the ancient origins of the doctrine of the Serpent and the mysteries of Mehen. Our evidence and arguments point to the existence of strong connections between Joseph Smith's revelatory scriptures and ancient Egypt. This must be a real blow to all of the critics, who for so long have looked askance at Joseph Smith's works as base imposture. Well, today I am going to expand the field a bit into the area of the ancient writing systems themselves.

We will focus in particular on the hieroglyphic system of the Mi'kmaq of Nova Scotia, which was brought to the attention of the West by the Franciscan missionary, Father LeClercq, in the late seventeenth century:



The Mi'kmaq have a system of hieroglyphic writing just as the Egyptians did. Here is the Lord's Prayer rendered in the Mi'kmaq system of writing:



Some scholars have noticed the similarity between Mi'kmaq hieroglyphs and some ancient Egyptian ones:



Some folks have even noticed the overlap between Mi'kmaq hieroglyphs and the Caractors document formerly known as the "Anton Transcript":



Of course, we would expect Mi'kmaq to be closer to Nephite than Egyptian because the Mi'kmaq are obviously descended from the Nephites and closer to them in time and geography.

What most may have missed, however, is William Phelps' dependence on Mi'kmaq when he restored the Adamic name of God with its Adamic hieroglyph:



Compare the character for "Ahman" or God with the Mi'kmaq hieroglyph for "Our Father" at the beginning of the Lord's Prayer document above. The two are sufficiently close to hypothesize a relationship between them. I suggest that Joseph Smith, William Phelps, or both, knew the Mi'kmaq character and the significance of the Mi'kmaq system of writing, and decided to use it in the restoration of Adamic.

[_DrW]

Reverend,

The tapestry expands. Very strange linguistic rendering of the Lord's prayer, though. German speakers can easily read it, but it it varies considerably from the textual structure of the Lord's prayer in any Germanic language that I could find (including Low German, Pennsylvania Dutch, etc.). This is a bit surprising, especially since the missionaries mentioned in regard to the development of the system of writing (in New France) had French surnames.

Anyway, according to wikipedia, it is not clear how much (if any) of this actual symbology existed in the New World before the arrival of the European missionaries.

Father law enforcement Clercq, a Roman Catholic missionary on the Gaspé Peninsula in New France from 1675, claimed that he had seen some Míkmaq children 'writing' symbols on birchbark as a memory aid. This was sometimes done by pressing porcupine quills directly into the bark in the shape of symbols. law enforcement Clercq adapted those symbols to writing prayers, developing new symbols as necessary.

This adapted writing system proved popular among Mi'kmaq, and was still in use in the 19th century. Since there is no historical or archaeological evidence of these symbols from before the arrival of this missionary, it is unclear how ancient the use of the mnemonic glyphs was. The relationship of these symbols with Mi'kmaq petroglyphs is also unclear.

(Underlining mine.)

[_Kishkumen]

Anyway, according to wikipedia, it is not clear how much (if any) of this actual symbology existed in the New World before the arrival of the European missionaries.

Yes, this is an issue. We need to tread carefully, however. Father LeClercq claimed he saw children making characters in the dirt and then he systematized or expanded what he saw. On the one hand, it is possible that he made this up, but, on the other hand, it could be that, in the tradition of European prejudice against native peoples, which still hampers Mopologetics today, we are denying the ability of the "primitive" Mi'kmaq to have had such a system and instead are erroneously crediting the "sophisticated and advanced" white man.

[_hagoth7]

...Of course, we would expect Mi'kmaq to be closer to Nephite than Egyptian because the Mi'kmaq are obviously descended from the Nephites and closer to them in time and geography.

OK. With you so far.

What most may have missed, however, is William Phelps' dependence on Mi'kmaq when he restored the Adamic name of God with its Adamic hieroglyph:

Why assume Phelps even knew anything of Mi'kmaq?

Compare the character for "Ahman" or God with the Mi'kmaq hieroglyph for "Our Father" at the beginning of the Lord's Prayer document above. The two are sufficiently close to hypothesize a relationship between them.

OK. I'm with you so far in allowing that there may be a relationship of some kind.

I suggest that Joseph Smith, William Phelps, or both, knew the Mi'kmaq character and the significance of the Mi'kmaq system of writing, and decided to use it in the restoration of Adamic.

If Joseph knew that Mi'kmaq existed, why would he have made no mention of the connection? Would'nt most early members of the church have eagerly appreciated news of ancient writing in North America? Are you suggesting that he intentionally left a connection that important unsaid, like an intriguing Easter egg hidden for later researchers to find? (Or would agreeing to that acknowledge some kind of prophetic intent?)

[_moksha]

If Joseph knew that Mi'kmaq existed, why would he have made no mention of the connection?

Perhaps the Seer Stone had its Precambrian shape formed by the exposed rock formation of the Canadian Shield, and its subsequent adventures among the those Lamanites known as the Huron, Iroquois and Mi'kmaq were just extraneous information to the Prophet.

[_hagoth7]

If Joseph knew that Mi'kmaq existed, why would he have made no mention of the connection?

Perhaps...

Moksha, while I actually appreciate your sense of humor, how about a serious response to this one?

[_Kishkumen]

If Joseph knew that Mi'kmaq existed, why would he have made no mention of the connection? Would'nt most early members of the church have eagerly appreciated news of ancient writing in North America? Are you suggesting that he intentionally left a connection that important unsaid, like an intriguing Easter egg hidden for later researchers to find? (Or would agreeing to that acknowledge some kind of prophetic intent?)

This makes little sense, hagoth7. Joseph Smith did not sit around talking about the Kabbalah all the time either. Yet, it is clear that he studied it an incorporated its concepts into Mormonism. Almost no one sets out in detail exactly what goes into the sausage. Joseph Smith certainly did not.

[_Chap]

If Joseph knew that Mi'kmaq existed, why would he have made no mention of the connection?

Perhaps the Seer Stone had its Precambrian shape formed by the exposed rock formation of the Canadian Shield, and its subsequent adventures among the those Lamanites known as the Huron, Iroquois and Mi'kmaq were just extraneous information to the Prophet.

Moksha, while I actually appreciate your sense of humor, how about a serious response to this one?

I rather feel that Moksha thinks his post is about as serious as a sensible person ought to get on this topic.

It is, perhaps, a more direct indication of his views than some of the more elaborate and subtle parodies of Mormon apologetic reasoning that have been posted on this board recently. Some of those are so clever that I suspect they would have been taken with utter seriousness if they had been posted on certain other boards.

[_SteelHead]

Well I look at the study on kjv and other verb uses in the Book of Mormon I linked to in the other thread. I think about how many hours, how much effort, money went into producing that. Makes me sad. Smart people giving cycles to producing B.S.. What a waste.

Perform this elaborate linguistic study, but because magic -> any thing could be forwarded as implications and anything concluded. Turns the whole study into a finely polished turd.

[_bcuzbcuz]

As you know from prior postings, I and my colleague, consiglieri, have been unfolding the ancient origins of the doctrine of the Serpent and the mysteries of Mehen. Our evidence and arguments point to the existence of strong connections between Joseph Smith's revelatory scriptures and ancient Egypt. This must be a real blow to all of the critics, who for so long have looked askance at Joseph Smith's works as base imposture. Well, today I am going to expand the field a bit into the area of the ancient writing systems themselves.

We will focus in particular on the hieroglyphic system of the Mi'kmaq of Nova Scotia, which was brought to the attention of the West by the Franciscan missionary, Father LeClercq, in the late seventeenth century:



The Mi'kmaq have a system of hieroglyphic writing just as the Egyptians did. Here is the Lord's Prayer rendered in the Mi'kmaq system of writing:



Some scholars have noticed the similarity between Mi'kmaq hieroglyphs and some ancient Egyptian ones:



Some folks have even noticed the overlap between Mi'kmaq hieroglyphs and the Caractors document formerly known as the "Anton Transcript":



Of course, we would expect Mi'kmaq to be closer to Nephite than Egyptian because the Mi'kmaq are obviously descended from the Nephites and closer to them in time and geography.

What most may have missed, however, is William Phelps' dependence on Mi'kmaq when he restored the Adamic name of God with its Adamic hieroglyph:



Compare the character for "Ahman" or God with the Mi'kmaq hieroglyph for "Our Father" at the beginning of the Lord's Prayer document above. The two are sufficiently close to hypothesize a relationship between them. I suggest that Joseph Smith, William Phelps, or both, knew the Mi'kmaq character and the significance of the Mi'kmaq system of writing, and decided to use it in the restoration of Adamic.

I don't know enough about your posts to know if your writings are serious, in jest, or just plain BS.

But going from the symbols of the MicMac language representing the ideas of the Lord's prayer is total crap. To provide any claims worth their salt you must first show that the MicMac people had concepts of a father in heaven, of sin, daily bread, trespasses, evil, etc, etc.

I have lived amongst three different tribes on the west coast of Canada and the concept of sin came from the Catholic church. There was no such concept before the "holy fathers" started preaching about it.

Similarily, just a concept like counting things, attaching a number value to things, didn't exist prior to European priests and traders. One tribe elder explained it in the following manner. "You Europeans do stupid things like trying to count the stars. What a waste of energy. You count money, you count how many things you have. In past times we had a way of counting one, two and three of things but after that, the concept was 'enough or not enough'. A fisherman could catch 100 small fish which hardly amounted to anything, while another caught one large fish that amounted to far more food for his family. What mattered was whether you had caught enough or not enough. The actual number was a useless statement."

Europeans introduced the idea of counting, the priests introduced the concept of praying to forgive sins. How the Micmac could possibly have a written symbol that represented a thought they never had is beyond me.