Kishkumen wrote:The long and short of the story is that there are so many ways in which the priesthood interviewing process is creepy and messed up that I think it qualifies as a routinized invasion of privacy--one that breaks down people's resistance to invading the privacy of others or having their privacy invaded in a variety of mundane ways.
My mission experience was really twisted and dark on this front. I baptized more people than all but a few missionaries in my mission. But, i also participated in almost as many church courts. Even as a 19 year old kid i was one of the priesthood holders voting on the outcome. An experience that still haunts me to this day.
"Rocks don't speak for themselves" is an unfortunate phrase to use in defense of a book produced by a rock actually 'speaking' for itself... (I have a Question, 5.15.15)
Kishkumen wrote:One of the worst invasions was using young missionaries to ask women whether they had ever had an abortion in a baptismal interview. The many layers of wrongness there are staggering to contemplate.
the wrongness on that is layered. we agree on that.
not sure what the process was in your mission, but if the answer was yes - then it started moving up up up the ladder. DL calls the ZL, ZL calls the office, office calls the MP, MP calls back down to the DL or ZL. we streamlined a bit in our mission, but the process was certainly one that did not include any amount of confidentiality.
if i recall, there were 5 big questions to ask. abortion, felony/crime, gay, something about divorces/marriages/kids, and something else. i can't remember it all.
This is like an adjudication process. At what level could a final decision be made?
Maksutov wrote:I guess it comes down to the LDS member having a Bill of Rights. I'm more American than Utahan, so this was always a struggle for me. From my first days as a convert at BYU my idea of my "self" was under assault. Behavior I would reject from anyone else I somehow would not accept from someone because of their church office. Privacy of my own thoughts was one of those issues. Who I dated was another, as my branch president chewed me out for not dating girls in the branch. The fact that I had not chosen to go on a mission was something I was expected to constantly explain and defend. The church wanted me enough to convert me but then it really didn't want "me". After a while feeling became mutual...imagine that.
That need to defend mundane life choices is something I do not miss. I've had a beard since the age of 15 and it is just still unbelievable the crap I have had to endure over a simple decision not to cut the hair off my face. Even up to the point where my bishop knew that I thought Joseph was a complete fraud, he was still making jokes about me "missing a spot" shaving. No, bishop, I have a beard and it is on purpose, just like the last ten times you made that joke. It really is a pathological level of invasion of boundaries.
Mayan Elephant wrote:My mission experience was really twisted and dark on this front. I baptized more people than all but a few missionaries in my mission. But, i also participated in almost as many church courts. Even as a 19 year old kid i was one of the priesthood holders voting on the outcome. An experience that still haunts me to this day.
I feel fortunate not to have participated in a disciplinary council. One of my district members did end up going home with his garments in a box; he was very immature and ended up having an affair with an attractive female investigator. That was as close as I got to church discipline on my mission. My sympathies go out to you for having had to participate in the actual disciplinary process. I am sure it does haunt you.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
fetchface wrote:That need to defend mundane life choices is something I do not miss. I've had a beard since the age of 15 and it is just still unbelievable the crap I have had to endure over a simple decision not to cut the hair off my face. Even up to the point where my bishop knew that I thought Joseph was a complete fraud, he was still making jokes about me "missing a spot" shaving. No, bishop, I have a beard and it is on purpose, just like the last ten times you made that joke. It really is a pathological level of invasion of boundaries.
Yes, God forbid that you grow out your God-given facial hair. What nonsense!
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
fetchface wrote:That need to defend mundane life choices is something I do not miss. I've had a beard since the age of 15 and it is just still unbelievable the s*** I have had to endure over a simple decision not to cut the hair off my face....
I sported a beard for a while, and, when visiting family in a very conservative county, there was a greeter apparently assigned to man the chapel doorway of that ward. His "greeting" to me that day (if it can be called a greeting) was, "Oh, a beard! A throwback to the 19th century!" I won't say what I almost wish I had said in reply. Tact and all.
While serving in the stake presidency during the late 1970s-early 1980s, my father, along with the other members of the presidency went to the airport to pick up a visiting apostle. At the time my father had a mustache. When they encountered the apostle in the airport, the apostle first words to my father were to tell him that he did not approve of my father's grooming choice. I am not sure which apostle this was, but certainly it was one who had been around long enough to have met prophets who had beards.
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
Fence Sitter wrote:While serving in the stake presidency during the late 1970s-early 1980s, my father, along with the other members of the presidency went to the airport to pick up a visiting apostle. At the time my father had a mustache. When they encountered the apostle in the airport, the apostle first words to my father were to tell him that he did not approve of my father's grooming choice. I am not sure which apostle this was, but certainly it was one who had been around long enough to have met prophets who had beards.
Re: facial hair, what an idiotic thing for Mormons to focus on.
My Irish Catholic spouse has a moustache. Given that it's RED I think I will visit a few wards around here with him in tow, just for the fun of watching the terror and panic in the Mormons' eyes, as they shield their children from, gasp, one of the devil's own!!
