Mak's failed attempt at new Mormonism.

[_Runtu]

My take is that it is ill-conceived boundary maintenance and legal prophylaxis that will cause a great deal of harm.

That's my take, as well. I don't think the brethren are evil homophobes, but I do think this shows they will do what they think they have to, even dividing families and hurting children, to protect the institution. My good friend is a family law attorney, and he tells me there is no legal reason for the move, that the First Amendment protects the church from "alienation of affection" issues, so he is guessing it's more about boundary maintenance than anything. Either way, I think it was a huge miscalculation and one that is going to hurt the church, not only affected families, going forward. Heck, even my faithful wife has considered no longer attending church after this. I could not have imagined that happening.

But she is staying, and I'm assuming you will, too. As I've repeatedly told my kids, the church does not teach that its leaders are infallible, and members are under no obligation to follow or support them in doing wrong.

[Guest]

Mak,

You have my respect for this clear and concise response. No one here should expect more from you.

I hope you have not risked your standing in the Church or your profession position by making such a statement in a public forum.

I appreciate that. I am trying to be tactful and somewhat discreet because I realize I run a risk, but I also don't feel it would be right to remain silent. There is too much at stake.

Well,

You can add this comment (Dr W's) to my CD of "DrW's Greatest hits."

And you can add this other commrnt (Mak's) to my CD of "Mak's Greatest Hits."

A 2 for 1 ........

Peace,
Ceeboo

[_Kishkumen]

Now, in the context of what mak has so lucidly articulated, I want to clarify my position.

I am not quitting because I used to believe that the LDS president and apostles had a red phone connection to Jesus that suddenly went on the fritz. I am quitting because this was an egregious abuse of the trust that is placed in them as men who exercise power as though they had such a special connection to Christ. In other words, the comprehensive nature of their authority over the lives of the members requires, in my view, an enormous amount of care in how they wield that authority, however ill founded their position may be. They have shown very clearly to me their failure to exercise the restraint that should accompany such power. History is full of examples of individuals or small groups who exercised unusual power over their peers, but such regimes have always been contingent upon them maintaining the appearance of a certain goodwill and restraint. Once this perception is dashed by egregious overreaching, the legitimacy of this benevolent tyranny is compromised.

[_RockSlider]

[
I appreciate it, but I would ask for some clarification. When you say "responding this way," do you refer to my response to you or to the original question? And does "keep pursuing it" mean remaining a member?

Since I've followed your posting here. I'm referring to questions I've asked you as well as others has asked, where you seem to actually be answering the questions the same way we would.

I think I almost got a glimpse of where you where coming from once ... but its totally counter to my previous literalistic, black and white understanding of the Restored Gospel.

I've remained a member (I'm a Mormon member or not), but I don't pursue it (follow the prophet, pay tithes, stay active), that is what I meant by pursue.

[_SteelHead]

Mak, mad respect.

[_maklelan]

And Mak is right, I am looking at this very binary because that is where my wife and children are. It's literal to them, its very binary to them. And so yes, I suppose I project that on to him, in hopes of wanting to deal with it at home.

I think the Church makes a token effort to acknowledge the humanity of its leaders and their motivations, but tends to allow the cult of obedience to overshadow it. The historical introduction that was allowed to be added to OD––2 I think functions as an additional official acknowledgement that leadership can be guided by non-divine motivations.

[_maklelan]

My LDS friends seem to be divided on it. Some feel that they need to "doubt their doubts," and they've been circulating memes about following and supporting the brethren, and choosing between the church and the world. But more than ever I'm seeing faithful Mormons who feel comfortable expressing concern over the policy (online and off). They can't even play at adopting a supportive view toward it. These aren't wishy-washy LDS types either-- but stalwart members like my own mother.

I didn't see that coming, and it does my heart good to hear it. Same here. Thumbs up.

Thanks for the support. I've been surprised by who is expressing concern with the policy, which, I believe, is a sign of good things.

[_maklelan]

Since I've followed your posting here. I'm referring to questions I've asked you as well as others has asked, where you seem to actually be answering the questions the same way we would.

I think I almost got a glimpse of where you where coming from once ... but its totally counter to my previous literalistic, black and white understanding of the Restored Gospel.

I've remained a member (I'm a Mormon member or not), but I don't pursue it (follow the prophet, pay tithes, stay active), that is what I meant by pursue.

Thanks for the clarification. That makes sense.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

That's a pretty safe assumption to make now going on 5 days after the policy implementation (more or less).

I said the exact same thing multiple times on multiple social media platforms on Thursday and every day since then. I've met with and discussed the issue with dozens of Latter-day Saints spanning the entire spectrum of activity and inactivity. Any other nuggets of wisdom?

My god you're sensitive little gelding, aren't you? CFR on your claim.

- Doc

[_maklelan]

My god you're sensitive little gelding, aren't you?

Just pointing out your little assumption is misinformed.

CFR on your claim.

No, I'm not going to be linking to or posting my social media stuff here.