The Top Ten Happenings in Mopologetics, 2015

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_Doctor Scratch
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Re: The Top Ten Happenings in Mopologetics, 2015

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

sock puppet wrote:
Doctor Scratch wrote:It'll be interesting to see who gets appointed as Director of the Maxwell Institute. As far as predictions go.... Hmm. Tough to say. There might be further developments involving the clash between the Mopologists and the "Mormon Studies" crew. Frankly, I would be interested to see the apologists creeping out from behind the shelter of their various blogs and engaging critics more directly, but I sincerely doubt that will happen.

Do you think we might see some typical pretzel logic from the Mopes on the new pronouncement that married gays are apostates and how the children of gay cohabiting parents are now singled out for treatment? I mean, something beyond the contorted, unbelievable explanation proffered up by Christofferson and Otterson that it's to protect the children and the canard that these moves head off lawsuits without any articulation of what the legal theories behind such suits might be?


My guess would be "probably not"--at least, I wouldn't necessarily expect something in Mormon Interpreter. You might get something from, say, Ralph Hancock or on FAIR, however. And I doubt very much that the "argument" would be along the same lines as the Christofferson/Otterson thing.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_Doctor Scratch
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Re: The Top Ten Happenings in Mopologetics, 2015

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

Markk wrote:
Doctor Scratch wrote:
Hi, Mark.

I agree with you that the Kerry Shirts items were significant. All that said, I and others have known for quite a while that the Brethren have played a role in the functioning of Mopologetics. You may remember past items being discussed here on MDB concerning the divisive "factions" within the top 15 who disagreed on the role that apologetics should play. Additionally, we were treated not all that long ago to revelations from John Dehlin (and others) on the way(s) that Elder Holland apparently intervened in the publication of the final, failed, infamous issue of the FARMS Review.


I did not know that?

If you ever have the time and energy I would love to read a narrative of all that.

thanks
MG


I don't know that I have a whole lot to add: you can read some of the old threads here on MDB--just do a search for "Packer Faction" or "Oaks Faction." Or take a gander at this. The apologists routinely had one of the General Authorities come and speak with them at one of their annual dinners, and we know that phone calls were made, etc.

I will say, however, that the revelation about some GA being part of their emails was a new one, though it didn't surprise me. What's striking is that the apologists basically seem to view the Brethren as a kind of "tool." They are more than happy to claim the GAs as authorities, or to make innuendos about how they are on friendly terms with so-and-so in the CAB. But when the Brethren function in an oppositional way to their goals, the Mopologists will toss them right down the tubes. I'm thinking specifically of a case where Louis "Woody" Midgley verbally attacked a Heartland Model-friendly GA in public at one point. The apologists crave their "celebrity" status, and frankly, the Brethren can often get in the way of that.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_Markk
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Re: The Top Ten Happenings in Mopologetics, 2015

Post by _Markk »

Doc,

Remember that old political type of cartoon that was going around that showed a bus at a bus stop with FARMS as the destination, with GA's getting on board? I always looked at it like that.

I guess maybe it was the other way around? It should be a bus driven by the GA with the destination saying "scapegoat city."
Don't take life so seriously in that " sooner or later we are just old men in funny clothes" "Tom 'T-Bone' Wolk"
_Simon Southerton
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Re: The Top Ten Happenings in Mopologetics, 2015

Post by _Simon Southerton »

Thanks Scratch. Been a big year and 2016 promises to be bigger again as the SSM fallout just rolls on.
LDS apologetics --> "It's not the crime, it's the cover-up, which creates the scandal."
"Bigfoot is a crucial part of the ecosystem, if he exists. So let's all help keep Bigfoot possibly alive for future generations to enjoy, unless he doesn't exist." - Futurama
_I have a question
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Re: The Top Ten Happenings in Mopologetics, 2015

Post by _I have a question »

Gadianton wrote:The university is generous in rewarding its staff, and many others received awards too but for some reason, every year Doctor Scratch receives the most coveted awards. One other notable honorary doctorate worth mentioning from this year: "I Have a Question" was awarded "Doctor of Journalistic integrity and general Services to Humanity". Given how badly apologist advances have been beaten back with sound reasoning, sometimes it's a little slow around here, and IHAQ stands out as a key contributor to the momentum of topic flow.


I am humbled :redface: to receive this doctorate award and reluctantly accept it, but only on behalf of the full faculty of posters without whom this board would be a shadow of its current cultural smorgasbord self. Indeed, perhaps the ultimate accolade should go to Shades.

I will endeavour to work hard through 2016 to justify the award.
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
_Elphaba
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Re: The Top Ten Happenings in Mopologetics, 2015

Post by _Elphaba »

Gadianton wrote:. . . . One other notable honorary doctorate worth mentioning from this year: "I Have a Question" was awarded "Doctor of Journalistic integrity and general Services to Humanity". Given how badly apologist advances have been beaten back with sound reasoning, sometimes it's a little slow around here, and IHAQ stands out as a key contributor to the momentum of topic flow.
I completely agree.

Elphaba
Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.)
~~Walt Whitman
_Dr. Shades
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Re: The Top Ten Happenings in Mopologetics, 2015

Post by _Dr. Shades »

"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"

--Louis Midgley
_Tom
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Re: The Top Ten Happenings in Mopologetics, 2015

Post by _Tom »

Thanks to Dr. Scratch for his entertaining rundown on a very significant year. A few comments:

I cannot help but recall the rapturous and ennobling joy that surged through my body and soul when, many years ago, while devoting a richly rewarding academic semester to studying the delightful chronicle Llibre dels feyts del rey en Jacme (Book of the Deeds of King James) while happily ensconced in the confines of the regal Reial Monestir de Santa Maria de Poblet, and while pleasuring my palate with a delightful and exquisite repast of escudella, mongetes amb botifarra, cargols a la llauna, and peres de Lleida (washed down by three glasses of nonalcoholic Moscatel wine), I first heard "Caga tió." The utter beauty of it haunts me. The melody enchants me. But I also am utterly mesmerized by the lyrics, the meter, the symbolism. Alas, I've never, despite 40 years of arduous searching, encountered an English translation that begins to approach the majesty of the original.

Turning now to the past year at "Sic et Non," I cannot help but applaud the singular contributions of a prolific commenter I shall refer to as TLDST. And I must recognize the fact that Dr. Peterson has, essentially, taken TLDST under his wing, devoting hundreds of comments toward lovingly and patiently reeducating the young and impressionable commenter.

As to J. Gee's comments on the UVU panel on apologetics, I am intrigued by his reference to "an actual apologist [who] asked [the panelists] about how they might respond to a hypothetical sister in Parowan who might be troubled by things she had read." Who was this "actual apologist" and why didn't Gee identify him or her?
Last edited by Guest on Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:28 pm, edited 3 times in total.
“A scholar said he could not read the Book of Mormon, so we shouldn’t be shocked that scholars say the papyri don’t translate and/or relate to the Book of Abraham. Doesn’t change anything. It’s ancient and historical.” ~ Hanna Seariac
_Everybody Wang Chung
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Re: The Top Ten Happenings in Mopologetics, 2015

Post by _Everybody Wang Chung »

Thanks, Dr. Scratch!

It's been hard watching Bill Hamblin implode, both personally and professionally. His "debate" with Phillip Jenkins was the crowning achievement of a career wasted.

Hopefully, we can all learn from Bill Hamblin the toll Mopologetics can take on one's marriage, family and career.
"I'm on paid sabbatical from BYU in exchange for my promise to use this time to finish two books."

Daniel C. Peterson, 2014
_Doctor Scratch
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Re: The Top Ten Happenings in Mopologetics, 2015

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

Tom wrote:Turning now to the past year at "Sic et Non," I cannot help but applaud the singular contributions of a prolific commenter I shall refer to as TLDST. And I must recognize the fact that Dr. Peterson has, essentially, taken TLDST under his wing, devoting hundreds of comments toward lovingly and patiently reeducating the young and impressionable commenter.


Yes, good point, Tom. Had you not enlightened us to the fact that Dr. P. is "patiently reeducating" TLDST, one might have been mistakenly inclined to view the behavior as....obsession, rather than loving patience. Incidentally, is seems that yet another instance of censorship/banning has cropped up on "Sic et Non," unfortunately. Some people just won't permit certain kinds of talk in their living room, I suppose.

As to J. Gee's comments on the UVU panel on apologetics, I am intrigued by his reference to "an actual apologist [who] asked [the panelists] about how they might respond to a hypothetical sister in Parowan who might be troubled by things she had read." Who was this "actual apologist" and why didn't Gee identify him or her?


An excellent question!
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
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