Did a man or the Self-Existing God create the Universe ?

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_Mittens
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Did a man or the Self-Existing God create the Universe ?

Post by _Mittens »

2 Nephi 26:12 And as I spake concerning the convincing of the Jews, that Jesus is the very Christ, it must needs be that the Gentiles be convinced also that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God;


3 Nephi 11:17 Hosanna! Blessed be the name of the Most High God! And they did fall down at the feet of Jesus, and did worship him.

Mosiah 3:5 For behold, the time cometh, and is not far distant, that with power, the Lord Omnipotent who reigneth, who was, and is from all eternity to all eternity, shall come down from heaven among the children of men, and shall dwell in a tabernacle of clay, and shall go forth amongst men, working mighty miracles, such as healing the sick, raising the dead, causing the lame to walk, the blind to receive their sight, and the deaf to hear, and curing all manner of diseases.

3 Nephi 19:
18 And behold, they began to pray; and they did pray unto Jesus, calling him their Lord and their God.


Mosiah 5:15 Therefore, I would that ye should be steadfast and immovable, always abounding in good works, that Christ, the Lord God Omnipotent, may seal you his, that you may be brought to heaven, that ye may have everlasting salvation and eternal life, through the wisdom, and power, and justice, and mercy of him who created all things, in heaven and in earth, who is God above all. Amen.

2 Nephi 10:3
3 Wherefore, as I said unto you, it must needs be expedient that Christ—for in the last night the angel spake unto me that this should be his name—should come among the Jews, among those who are the more wicked part of the world; and they shall crucify him—for thus it behooveth our God, and there is none other nation on earth that would crucify their God.

2 Nephi 25:29
And now behold, I say unto you that the right way is to believe in Christ, and deny him not; and Christ is the Holy One of Israel; wherefore ye must bow down before him, and worship him with all your might, mind, and strength, and your whole soul; and if ye do this ye shall in nowise be cast out.

Jesus is God above all, our Lord and God, God from Eternity, the Most High God, Lord God omnipotent and the eternal God according to the Book of Mormon

1. “To those who through the righteousness of Our God and Savior Jesus Christ,” 2 Peter 1:1
Emphatic Diaglott

2. “The glorious appearing of our Great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,” Titus 2:13 Emphatic Diaglott

3.”Keep watch over yourself and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has you overseer. Be shepherds of the Church of God, which he bought with his own blood.” Acts 20:28 New International V

4.”Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all forever praised amen” Romans 9:5 King James

5.”The life appeared, we have seen it and testified to it, and we proclaim to you the Eternal Life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.” 1 John 1:2 King James and we are in him who is the true even in his son Jesus, He is the True God and Eternal Life,” 1 John 5:20 King James

6.”In the beginning, was the WORD, and the WORD was with GOD and the WORD was GOD Himself.” John 1:1 Amplified Version

7.”And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness; GOD was manifested in the flesh.” 1 Timothy 3:16 King James


8.”and Thomas answered and said to him “ My LORD and my God,” Jesus said to him :Thomas because you have seen me you have believed,” John 20:28 King James

9.”for in him dwells all the fullness of the GODHEAD BODILY,” Colossians 2:9 King James “GODHEAD” {Greek-Theotetos}. In Thayers Greek page 288; The state of being God

10.”who although being essentially one with God and in the Form of God {possessing the fullness of the attributes which make GOD GOD} did not think this equality with God was a thing to be grasped or retained.” Philippians 2:6 Amplified version

11.”No one has seen God {referring to the Father} BUT GOD the One and Only, who is at the Fathers side has made him known.” John 1:18 New International {Jehovah GOD was seen many times by the people, so in them cases it couldn’t be the Father, {had to be Jesus who was seen and called Jehovah.

The video's below tell us no man that progressed to Godhead ever created our universe like Mormons teach :lol:


https://vimeo.com/150759164


https://youtu.be/lFFkS0FhENQ
Justice = Getting what you deserve
Mercy = Not getting what you deserve
Grace = Getting what you can never deserve
_The CCC
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Re: Did a man or the Self-Existing God create the Universe ?

Post by _The CCC »

Whether the universe was created for me, or me for the universe. I'm just glad to be here.
_Mittens
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Re: Did a man or the Self-Existing God create the Universe ?

Post by _Mittens »

The CCC wrote:Whether the universe was created for me, or me for the universe. I'm just glad to be here.


After watching the video do you think the Mormon impotent God could have created this universe who was a fallen, sinful man who progressed to Godhead :lol:
Justice = Getting what you deserve
Mercy = Not getting what you deserve
Grace = Getting what you can never deserve
_I have a question
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Re: Did a man or the Self-Existing God create the Universe ?

Post by _I have a question »

Trick question as God was once a man.
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
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Re: Did a man or the Self-Existing God create the Universe ?

Post by _Mittens »

I have a question wrote:Trick question as God was once a man.


Jesus was God and

Jesus Stripped his equality with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit and humbled himself to the form of a slave.

”Who although being essentially one with God and in the Form of God {possessing the fullness of the attributes which make GOD GOD} did not think this equality with God was a thing to be grasped or retained.” Philippians 2:6 Amplified version

“For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.” 2 Cor. 8:9

Hebrews 12
1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

In the original language “for the joy” means “he exchanged Joy for Shame”.

Thank you Jesus for coming down from your throne in heaven where you were the Almighty God, “EL SHADDAI”, The Great I AM creator of all things in heaven and earth, visible and invisible, thrones, dominions, and principalities and powers . You were rich yet you became poor. You were Almighty yet you emptied yourself and became a humble slave, you exchanged joy for sorrow , sorrow by dying a shameful death on a cross as a criminal even thou he had no sin . Thank you Jesus

Luke 2:51 And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart.

It's interesting how Jesus The Almighty God the creator of everything that exist both in heaven and earth humbled himself to a point where he was obedient to Mary and Joseph one of the poorest couples in the world he created.

God the Father was never a man
Justice = Getting what you deserve
Mercy = Not getting what you deserve
Grace = Getting what you can never deserve
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Re: Did a man or the Self-Existing God create the Universe ?

Post by _I have a question »

Au contraire.....

Joseph Smith taught: “It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the Character of God. … He was once a man like us; … God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, sel. Joseph Fielding Smith [1976], 345–46).

https://www.LDS.org/manual/gospel-princ ... n?lang=eng
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
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Re: Did a man or the Self-Existing God create the Universe ?

Post by _LittleNipper »

I have a question wrote:Au contraire.....

Joseph Smith taught: “It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the Character of God. … He was once a man like us; … God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, sel. Joseph Fielding Smith [1976], 345–46).

https://www.LDS.org/manual/gospel-princ ... n?lang=eng

This is but one of the MAJOR points that totally separates Christ centered Christianity from most cults --- including Mormonism. We can never become GOD because GOD always was GOD. GOD is not a created being. That would place HIM in subjection to some previous "God" or "Father".

God is GOD and man is but man. We are not evolving into "Gods". We will always be in complete subjection under Christ, the Holy Spirit, and the Father throughout all eternity. We have a beginning and GOD is eternal from everlasting to everlasting. God can exist without man, but man ----- redeemed or otherwise, can never hope to exist apart from GOD.

The entire process we now find ourselves in is to separate the wheat from the tares and re-establish the Creation as GOD had originally intended when He created Adam and Eve. There will be A new heaven and A new earth and those that are saved will enjoy an eternity in the splendor of ALMIGHTY GOD doing whatever HE intends the saved to do. It isn't about US. It is all about GOD. This is Christianity. Pagans believed that they would become gods (mostly the ancient wealthy rulers) to continue doing whatever rulers do.

I foresee Christians becoming more like Christ's Apostles and doing HIS bidding, and not fulfilling their own desires and wants. Our desires and wants will be to please GOD and enjoy being HIS eternally. If you find this all a great big bore, well perhaps that's just another reason why there exists a hell. No one will be bored there --- that's for sure.
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Re: Did a man or the Self-Existing God create the Universe ?

Post by _Ceeboo »

Neither!

As a good student of the MDB, I have learned that the universe has a beginning (it was not created though! :smile: )

It came into existence (suddenly) from an event that is fondly called "The Big Bang!"

Before this event (The initial singularity) there was nothing - there was no space - there was no time - there is nothing behind this initial singularity.

While we don't even know what a singularity is (and certainly can not scientifically prove that singularities even exist) we do know that an initial singularity is what caused the explosive beginning to the entire universe.

At the moment of this explosion - before the expansion began - everything in the entire universe that we can see - and all that we can not yet see - was about half the size of a dime!

Now - although we have entirely no idea what rests (or rested) behind this initial singularity - we absolutely know that there was and is nothing behind it! (Makes sense, yes?)

It all was born of nothing - by nothing - for nothing - out of exactly nothing.

Come - follow me - and I will give you rest! :smile:

Peace,
Ceeboo
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Re: Did a man or the Self-Existing God create the Universe ?

Post by _ludwigm »

Ceeboo wrote:Neither!

As a good student of the MDB, I have learned that the universe has a beginning (it was not created though! :smile: )
It came into existence (suddenly) from an event that is fondly called "The Big Bang!"
Before this event (The initial singularity) there was nothing - there was no space - there was no time - there is nothing behind this initial singularity.
While we don't even know what a singularity is (and certainly can not scientifically prove that singularities even exist) we do know that an initial singularity is what caused the explosive beginning to the entire universe.
At the moment of this explosion - before the expansion began - everything in the entire universe that we can see - and all that we can not yet see - was about half the size of a dime!
Now - although we have entirely no idea what rests (or rested) behind this initial singularity - we absolutely know that there was and is nothing behind it! (Makes sense, yes?)
It all was born of nothing - by nothing - for nothing - out of exactly nothing.
Come - follow me - and I will give you rest! :smile:


Peace,
Ceeboo

We absolutely know what there was behind it.
- [#img] http://img1.indafoto.hu/10/1/57091_6715 ... 9fba_m.jpg[/img] -
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco
- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
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Re: Did a man or the Self-Existing God create the Universe ?

Post by _Themis »

Ceeboo wrote:Neither!

As a good student of the MDB, I have learned that the universe has a beginning (it was not created though! :smile: )


Yes the universe as we know it.

It came into existence (suddenly) from an event that is fondly called "The Big Bang!"


Seems an appropriate name considering the evidence don't ya think? Or do you know what evidence scientists are seeing? :cool:

Before this event (The initial singularity) there was nothing - there was no space - there was no time - there is nothing behind this initial singularity.


No time or space, but I haven't seen the science comment about nothing behind it. God did it doesn't seem very scientific unless they have some good evidence for such. Hard to get since we cannot see the moment it happened.

While we don't even know what a singularity is (and certainly can not scientifically prove that singularities even exist) we do know that an initial singularity is what caused the explosive beginning to the entire universe.


These areas are called theoretical for a reason, but a lot of math goes into it. One cannot just make things up like God did it and expect that it should be accepted. If you think this is wrong please explain why.

Now - although we have entirely no idea what rests (or rested) behind this initial singularity - we absolutely know that there was and is nothing behind it! (Makes sense, yes?)

It all was born of nothing - by nothing - for nothing - out of exactly nothing.


See above. :wink:
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