Mary wrote:You seem to have uttedly demonized Ron to a strange degree, whilst seeing Jean as some kind of victimized Saint? What do you know that I don't?
There were 2 imperfect, fiery people in the marriage, not one.
Karren is the person who is speaking. He, therefore, is the only person we have a lot of real information about. These are all his claims. If the evidence he were providing weren"t providing evidence against him, then I would be listening to him more. I care about this subject. I believe there is an abuse problem in the church. Frankly, I even wish this added up. But it just doesn't.
It is just not true that it takes two imperfect people to cause these kinds of problems. Yes, all people are imperfect, and in most marriages the two imperfect people have to work together to see if they can make their differences work and develop a lasting, meaningful relationship despite them. There are some mental disorders, however, that can be present in only one member of a couple that make that philosophy false and repeating it to the person who does not have the disorder is even harmful because there are no actions the person without the disorder can take that will improve the situation. Karren's behaviors in the divorce and in the court system are indicative of the kinds of mental disorders that nullify the reasoning that it takes two to tango.
A long-term committed and even temple marriage to someone with certain disorders has a debilitating effect on the spouse who may also become more unwell over time and need treatment after escape from the marriage. The Mormon philosophy that one must stick it out to get to heaven where people will be made perfect does not help in these situations. It doesn't necessarily take two to cause the kind of tango-Ing we see in all these court records and in Karren's words about them.
The same argument could be reversed, and we could say that because there may be extremely dysfunctional abuse in the Mikelsen family, Karren was driven to this point of mental breakdown and this is the result. My problem with relying on that reasoning exclusively is that Karren seems to be taking so many actions that make whatever problems were there far worse. I therefore can't see him as the victim he claims to be. His actions align with the disorders that wreak toxic havoc in marriages, divorces, and the court room.
It is possible that this family is so messed up that there is multigenerational abuse and Karren has some comorbid conditions like narcissism and high-functioning autism (that often comes with anxiety and depression, too) and whatever ekse. And so what are we all supposed to do when we see the public manifestation in 2016? The best answer I have is to recommend care for the clear victims and Karren is not one of them (aside from the fact that it is not his fault if he has mental disorders). The clear victims are Karren's wife and daughter. If what Karren is claiming is true, then Karren's ex-wife not only has a terrible husband but a terrible father who would have sexually abused her too. If what Karren is claiming is false, she married a nightmare of a man. The worst. Poor woman!
I don't understand why we would look at this ugly situation and castigate his ex-wife unless we just hated believers and children of GAs. But I don't hate believers. I see them as victims of Mormonism. And it would be awful to be a member of some GA's family. Can you imagine? That environment must be so unwell. But at least it's a culturally acceptable unwell and therefore not indicative of some sort of mental dysfunctioning. That's easier to live around than coping with disorders like high-functioning autism or narcissism (or both) that blow things up like this. Add it all together (and plug in the sexual abuse because there doesn't seem to be any question the daughter was presexualized by someone) and look at the salad you get!
The victims need help.