You can enter the Kingdom of God right now.

[_spotlight]

Chemistry can't change the Real Truth. It may have a temporary influence on the physical brain. While under anesthesia, we are still alive; but we have no idea what is happening. The veil acts somewhat the same;

But before being born you'd say we were consciously aware, yes? We simply do not remember. But chemicals make us consciously unaware. They turn us off completely. They are not simply blocking memories of some other state. The situation is not the same as the idea of a veil.

I see no comments on the other thread (why must there be a God?) where I mentioned split brains or corpus calloscotomy. Experiments show that when the hemispheres are separated that each continues to experience its own consciousness apart from the other. Split brain patients have been found to unbutton a shirt with one hand while the other hand simultaneously re-buttons the shirt. Or the left hand turns off the television immediately after the right hand turns it on.

How do you square the existence of a separate consciousness in each hemisphere when they are split with consciousness being our eternal self?

[_Franktalk]

The word religion does not necessarily refer to belief in deities, whatever those are. Consider Buddhism.

I could change my comment to read, You have laid out a sketch of your irreligious dogmatics. Very little of your irreligious system is correct to my light.

I am unsure if that is better for you. Mind I am not proposing you must change to fit my light, I am just noting yours appears darkness to me.

Actually Buddhism is a good example. OK, I will not push back at the label. Do you consider Buddhism darkness? Or are you just saying darkness is not true in your eyes.

[_Franktalk]

How do you square the existence of a separate consciousness in each hemisphere when they are split with consciousness being our eternal self?

The brain has many functions that are not part of the spirit of man. Ego, motor skills, natural instincts, basic memory and awareness just like any other animal on earth. But unlike other animals if the spirit of man leaves the brain the brain winds down and the body dies.

I guess you could describe the connection like entangled energy. In this case the flow is only from the advanced self to the human mind. It is not entangled energy but that may allow you to form a picture of the connection in your mind.

[_jo1952]

Chemistry can't change the Real Truth. It may have a temporary influence on the physical brain. While under anesthesia, we are still alive; but we have no idea what is happening. The veil acts somewhat the same;

But before being born you'd say we were consciously aware, yes? We simply do not remember. But chemicals make us consciously unaware. They turn us off completely. They are not simply blocking memories of some other state. The situation is not the same as the idea of a veil.

Let me see if I can explain what I now believe more clearly. We are existing right now in the second and first estates. What connects us between the first, second, and third estates is a form of energy...as such, there is no "spirit"/"soul" (religious terms)...though we could more accurately call the energy an "essence". Our mortal brain is like the hard drive which gets turned on when we take our first breath; and gets turned off when our physical body dies. by the way, I no longer believe that a fetus (no matter how far along it is) has "life". The human body does not experience life until after it has been born and has taken its first breath. The first breath is when that new-born body becomes alive---when the energy essence turns it on.

Think of this as we would a virtual computer game. Our mortal/third estate "self" is like an avatar....the avatar is not aware that there is anything going on outside of its virtual world. It does not know that its "real" self is actually remotely viewing what it, the avatar, is doing.

What is going on is an extremely advanced technology which allows our ultimate first estate self to experience "newness". As eternal beings, we have always existed....described as having no beginning and no end. We already know everything there is to know; we have experienced everything our ultimate self can experience. We are bored. In order to maintain "a fulness of joy", we have created levels of "world creations" in which we also create a "new self" which is unaware of the estate above it. This new self can then provide our ultimate self brand new experiences which the new self gets to choose; thus the ultimate self gets to experience something without knowing ahead of time what the "new" self is going to choose to do. This helps explain why free will is so important! We don't want any of the rest of us to mess with our second or third estate self and its ability to make its own choices....though when others impede the free will of an avatar, that does become part of the experience. Christ, by teaching us to do unto others what we would have others do unto us, is teaching a fundamental principle of ultimate existence.

I see no comments on the other thread (why must there be a God?) where I mentioned split brains or corpus calloscotomy. Experiments show that when the hemispheres are separated that each continues to experience its own consciousness apart from the other. Split brain patients have been found to unbutton a shirt with one hand while the other hand simultaneously re-buttons the shirt. Or the left hand turns off the television immediately after the right hand turns it on.

How do you square the existence of a separate consciousness in each hemisphere when they are split with consciousness being our eternal self?

We are just beginning to get glimpses of how awesome our advanced (second estate) and ultimate (first estate) selves really are wherein we have created such complex physical bodies and purposefully imperfect physical worlds. With the advancements in science, we can now begin to believe in something which, not too long ago, seemed too incredible to be believable. However, if we were to KNOW for certain (with 100% certainty...absolutely no room for doubt), then part of the challenge for our newly created "self" would be removed. In other words, there is a reason why we don't want the second estate to be certain of the first; nor the third estate to be certain of the second. In order for the second and third estate to provide the unknown choices which they are going to make, they can't be allowed to KNOW. Otherwise, their purpose for providing "newness" to our ultimate self would become frustrated.

[_jo1952]

Inasmuch as we are ALL equally intelligent, never ending beings ("Gods", according to religion), we would never presume to interfere with each other's experiences. We would never tell each other that the choices we are making are "right" or "wrong". We pretty much know how to get along with each other in order that each of us can pursue and experience joy without interference. It is in this mortal "realm" wherein the "avatar" is allowed to do whatever it wants as far as interfering with the experience of another. The first and second estate self knows that what happens in the third estate is only temporary. There is no real danger to the second or first estate self. "Power" to create is NOT given to third estate beings....they aren't even allowed to "discover" it. There certainly is wisdom in THAT decision. Just see how we treat each other when we DON'T have the power to create.

[_spotlight]

The brain has many functions that are not part of the spirit of man. Ego, motor skills, natural instincts, basic memory and awareness just like any other animal on earth.

So there isn't anything that a brain does that can be evidence of the existence of the spirit then. Thoughts are the product of the elemental matter of the brain, not of the spirit.

But unlike other animals if the spirit of man leaves the brain the brain winds down and the body dies.

So animals have no spirits. They die for different reasons then we do.

I guess you could describe the connection like entangled energy.

But the energy balance from the purely material side is balanced. What energy the brain needs is provided by the body not anything else. Or are you saying that the spirit animates the brain? How, when you just ascribed the entirety of brain activity to ordinary matter and left nothing for the spirit to do?

In this case the flow is only from the advanced self to the human mind. It is not entangled energy but that may allow you to form a picture of the connection in your mind.

Flow of what?

[_spotlight]

Let me see if I can explain what I now believe more clearly. We are existing right now in the second and first estates. What connects us between the first, second, and third estates is a form of energy...as such, there is no "spirit"/"soul" (religious terms)...though we could more accurately call the energy an "essence". Our mortal brain is like the hard drive which gets turned on when we take our first breath; and gets turned off when our physical body dies. by the way, I no longer believe that a fetus (no matter how far along it is) has "life". The human body does not experience life until after it has been born and has taken its first breath. The first breath is when that new-born body becomes alive---when the energy essence turns it on.

But the energy for life comes from this life, not anything that animates matter. This has been known for some time now. And the brain accounts for everything that we observe as admitted by Frank so what is left for the essense to do?

Think of this as we would a virtual computer game. Our mortal/third estate "self" is like an avatar....the avatar is not aware that there is anything going on outside of its virtual world. It does not know that its "real" self is actually remotely viewing what it, the avatar, is doing.

So this Avatar when inside a brain that has the corpus collosum severed becomes separately aware? It becomes two aware instances independent from one another? This doesn't make any sense.

What is going on is an extremely advanced technology which allows our ultimate first estate self to experience "newness". As eternal beings, we have always existed....described as having no beginning and no end. We already know everything there is to know; we have experienced everything our ultimate self can experience. We are bored. In order to maintain "a fulness of joy", we have created levels of "world creations" in which we also create a "new self" which is unaware of the estate above it. This new self can then provide our ultimate self brand new experiences which the new self gets to choose; thus the ultimate self gets to experience something without knowing ahead of time what the "new" self is going to choose to do. This helps explain why free will is so important! We don't want any of the rest of us to mess with our second or third estate self and its ability to make its own choices....though when others impede the free will of an avatar, that does become part of the experience. Christ, by teaching us to do unto others what we would have others do unto us, is teaching a fundamental principle of ultimate existence.

So we are eternal gamers. Xbox is a manifestation of the eternal reality from which we spring.

We are just beginning to get glimpses of how awesome our advanced (second estate) and ultimate (first estate) selves really are wherein we have created such complex physical bodies and purposefully imperfect physical worlds. With the advancements in science, we can now begin to believe in something which, not too long ago, seemed too incredible to be believable.

Which is? Avatar, not the movie, the reality. Now all we have to do is explain how the homunculi function.

However, if we were to KNOW for certain (with 100% certainty...absolutely no room for doubt), then part of the challenge for our newly created "self" would be removed. In other words, there is a reason why we don't want the second estate to be certain of the first; nor the third estate to be certain of the second. In order for the second and third estate to provide the unknown choices which they are going to make, they can't be allowed to KNOW. Otherwise, their purpose for providing "newness" to our ultimate self would become frustrated.

So when we die and become aware again of eternal boredom we are anxious for our next fix to be re-injected again into the simulation?

[_jo1952]

As the eternal "gods" we have always been, we would never dictate to another "god" what they should do or what they should believe. However, that is exactly what we do inside of mortality. That is why religion and other belief systems have the power to control our minds...which, in turn, impedes true free will......the free will we enjoyed as infants, before the world taught us what to do and what to believe.

Presenting beliefs, and why, is one thing; trying to argue that what someone believes doesn't make sense to someone else, is an attempt to control what another believes. Science can be just as controlling as any other belief system.

It takes a lot of pondering to consider anything new which none of the rest of the world agrees to believe. We are so used to allowing others to guide our minds in what THEY think is the truth/how they are perceiving the world, we have a tough time allowing any new possibilities to enter. Yet, that is also part of the "game".

There is more to what I now believe....the purpose for why we participate in mortality....but that's enough for now. I have explained why I believe that Christ taught how we can enter the Kingdom of God right now.

[_spotlight]

I am not forcing you to believe anything. I am just asking you to explain how your model works with this bit a factual data. According to your model our self identity is eternal. How then do you explain it becoming divided into two independent separately thinking selves?

Frank seemed to ascribe it all to the brain In other words the mortal matter and laws that science ascribes it to. But then what is left for the immortal essence to do if the mortal brain does the thinking and reasoning and experiences the self? Do we not think after death in your model? If we do, then when in mortality does the brain have its own thoughts apart from our immortal self? Does the essence control which thoughts the brain comes up with are acted upon? Whatever it is supposed to do you have to explain why the immortal self simultaneously controls each hemisphere in a different way, why it simultaneously expresses different desires and viewpoints.

Or not because you can't. Or are you having a tough time allowing for new possibilities to enter?

[_jo1952]

Spotlight,

The theories developed through the observation of Science is always shifting.....thus what they believe is the truth of what they are observing today will be adjusted the longer they observe. What they thought was the truth they described through their observation as expressed today, will not agree with the revised truth they conclude tomorrow. I have already considered what science has to teach; and have already abandoned science for the very reason that their theories need to keep shifting. As such, how can I answer a question of yours which I think isn't based on the actuality of what is taking place? In other words, I don't think that your conclusion of what you are seeing is accurate. But you are certainly allowed to believe that it is.

This does not mean that I don't think science isn't beneficial to the progression of this mortal world's eternal round. The progress in science is a part of that round, as we can create an avatar whenever we want to in order that that avatar can experience the progressing circumstances of this mortal world. Science is not able to repeat the creation of a mortal world. It has not achieved what we, as ultimate human beings, have achieved without beginning and without end. While I don't know how our advanced or ultimate selves do what they do, I now believe that it is actually US who have created this world...that it was not just by chance or by any other means which science thinks took place. Even our most brilliant mortal minds have not been able to figure out what is believed to have taken place; they have not been able to repeat it. As such, their theories...by their own definition of what science is...are still flawed. I believe there was a greater outside force; and I believe it was us.

I have chosen to discard religion and science, and all other belief systems. The one I now believe makes the most sense to me. It also provides an end to the shifting of what I used to believe was truth. All that is left now is filling in the details of how things were accomplished....the details of creation. That is my unique experience; and it satisfies my pondering of what, exactly, are the "mysteries of God" kept hidden from us since the foundation of the mortal world we live in.

You can believe whatever you want to believe. I am not sharing my beliefs with the intent to convince you of anything. You have your own experiences which are yours uniquely. Live them. Share them; I actually enjoy reading what you believe. However, as soon as you try to control what I believe by mocking my beliefs in any way, then you have lost my interest. In my mind, you are also a "god". As such, you get to do whatever you want to do...you can believe whatever you want to believe. If your actions impede MY ability to do whatever I want to do, or believe whatever I want to believe, then you are not treating me like the "god" that I AM.