You can enter the Kingdom of God right now.

[_huckelberry]

spotlight, the actual program which follows the leader was very interesting. It shows some light upon the basics of having ideas.

You may not be as inclined toward Christian belief as I but I am enjoying your questioning the idea of spirit.

I think of spirit as a something which is built upon our biological functions. I think it is in the dimension of shared learning and caring where our biological functions takes on dimension which we call spirit. Spirit is not something we start with or even have a guarantee of. It is something that is being created within our life. As far as I am a Christian believer I think human spirit can touch the dimension of eternal by being included in the consciousness of God. If one does not believe in God the dimension of our human sharing remains spirit in the same sense I look for it as a believer. . It can contain all the hopes of religious faith though without God it recycles back to dissolution.

[_Franktalk]

Remember your big challenge on a different thread? "Where do new ideas come from?" How you think is your concern of course but you ought to be consistent. Granting that this would prove the eternal nature of the human mind for the sake of argument, give the following minute of video a watch:

Do you follow others around from one thread to another? Why are you being a stalker? It is kind of creepy.

[_jo1952]

If it doesn't matter what we believe then why does it matter if we are deceived?? Anyhow you are side stepping the question and not answering it. I guess that is necessary in a world where beliefs Trump evidence and precede rather than follow discovered facts.

I'm not side stepping. You just don't like my response. Meanwhile, I have already explained that if we want to see and hear Christ's message about who we are, then we have to give up what the world teaches us. That is the point of this thread....to be able to enter the "kingdom of God" right now. It doesn't matter if we do or if we don't. It's up to us to decide what we want to do. In order to meet the demands of free will, then the Real Truth MUST be available to us for those who want to find it....otherwise, those who want to find it won't be able to. The reason they won't be able to find it is because of all of the belief systems which control our minds---controlling what we believe according to the world's perception.

While ultimately, it doesn't matter if we enter the kingdom of God while in mortality, there absolutely are consequences. By not finding it here, and as a result of not doing what Christ taught in His gospel message of doing unto others what we would have others do unto us, we continue treating each other like *s...*. It causes all kinds of misery, destruction, war; it has caused the mess the world is in. If we could just understand who we really are, this would lend itself to a stronger desire and ability to treat each other the way we treat each other outside of mortality.

Good grief, Christ even taught us to pray for this:

Matthew 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

But the blind and the deaf have no idea what Christ was trying to teach. As such, though they pray the Lord's Prayer all of the time, it is merely vain repetition. They don't know what Father's will is---they keep asking to know it...even though Christ taught it to them. I don't doubt that those who read and study their scriptures all of the time have read the words which teach them the Father's will. But they don't get it; they see, instead, through the eyes of their religious beliefs as taught to them by the traditions of their fathers; so that is all they can see. They dedicate themselves to believing in Christ and doing what they think He taught. However, because they don't understand what He taught, the things they do aren't in accordance with what He taught--they do the religious false version. They say they believe IN Christ; but they fail to recognize that they don't believe Him---they don't believe what He taught; so they don't do what He taught. Instead, they believe in a mystical myth; rejecting and denying His own words.

Though Christ taught to the religious, His message is universal---IOW, it holds true in ALL belief systems, such as religion, science, philosophy, political, educational, etc. All of those systems currently treat others very poorly; as soon as someone doesn't agree with something that is believed, then mocking and worse takes place. They cause inequality, and they add to the misery experienced when participating inside of a purposely imperfect world. It's hard enough to live with naturally caused problems. We add to the misery and suffering in our ignorance; even though we have been taught by TM's how to alleviate the suffering caused by our own actions. We continue to be bound to the chains of our mortality created hell. If the religious would just believe Christ, they would no longer be bound to the ideas of religion; they would give up their religion altogether. At least the inequality caused by religion would then cease.

[_I have a question]

What is believed by anyone jo1952 becomes that person's truth; which doesn't mean that they have found the Real Truth.

Precisely.

[_jo1952]

Spotlight,

Religion controls the minds of "believers", effecting how they perceive what is going on around them. They see and hear according to the beliefs of religion. Those beliefs have been established by the "learned" and "wise" ones whom the people think have the information about God which is necessary in order that the people can then be "saved". As such, they have given power to the learned and wise ones to lead and guide them. They are mocked by those who believe in science. The religious mock those who don't agree with them.

Now, there are those who believe in both religion and in science. Wherever science doesn't agree with a religious belief, a reconciliation is made in their minds in order that they can justify how they still cling to both belief systems.

Many in science can't believe how the religious are deceived by a belief system which those in science don't believe. They can't believe how easily the religious are led. They don't recognize that the same thing is happening with science. Science has its own "learned" and "wise" ones to whom the believers in science have given power to lead and guide their minds. Science effects how the believers in science perceive what is going on around them in that the beliefs and methods of science are used when believers look at their world.

I shared a thought about who I now believe we are; and showed the teachings of Christ to do it. It is a thought way outside of the box of what either religion or science teach. There are no "learned" or "wise" ones to whom we have given power to lead and guide us who teach this in either religion or science. It appears to me that instead of discussing the possibility that WE are the ones who created this mortal world, you are using a process of observation taught to you by science (and you want me to follow it; you are frustrated because I don't). As such, you are seeing and hearing this discussion through the eyes and ears of science. Thus, you are focusing on the process of thought, rather than the incredible possibility that we are the creators....that we are the Father. Now, if any of those whom you have given power to lead and guide you were to introduce the very same belief as a possibility, I think you would be reacting differently. There isn't a way for science, at least not yet, to be able to establish repeatability that we might be the Father. As such, science (by its own established system of what they will allow themselves to believe) has closed its mind. If it can't be observed according to the criteria determined by science, then it is discarded. In so doing, the minds of its followers are also closed; even though a believer in science will argue emphatically that they are open-minded. This is another manifestation of what was described in the OP wherein we have given power to our belief systems to control our minds; which does not leave room for us to be able to believe anything else. We are only able to see and hear according to what our belief systems teach us unless we give up our beliefs.

[_jo1952]

What is believed by anyone jo1952 becomes that person's truth; which doesn't mean that they have found the Real Truth.

Precisely.

That is part of the challenge. We can't know anything beyond the shadow of a doubt. According to what I now believe....and I can't prove it....the only ones who DO know....who have complete certainty about the Real Truth of what is going on here....are True Messengers (which includes Christ). I have already explained their purpose.

The premise that we are the Father would allow us to treat each other's beliefs with respect. Recognizing that we are ALL advanced humans participating inside of a mortal world would free us from the notion or ideas that we are somehow better, smarter, saved, chosen...etc., than anyone else. This iniquity would no longer cause us to treat each other so poorly. Our world could begin to heal. The irony is that, due to our belief systems, anything outside of what is believed, is considered crazy or dangerous; thus we perpetuate the road we travel which has led us to the brink of physical destruction and annihilation.

So, I Have A Question, what do you think about the possibility that we are the Father? This belief also comes with a way we would then perceive everything in the world. It certainly is outside of everything the world has taught so far..though I believe that that is exactly what Christ was trying to teach. The world has chosen to teach something different of Christ's teachings in order to be able to fit in with their religious beliefs.

Fortunately, the premise that we are the Father leads to another, happier conclusion: We aren't going to allow our mortal avatars to destroy the world. If it gets to the point we are in imminent danger of doing so, we will send our Christ earlier than the predetermined time limit in order to stop us. As part of what I now believe, this part of the eternal round wherein Christ's government is not yet established, has a time limit. The reason Christ doesn't know when He will return (that it will be determined by the Father) is because we don't know ahead of time what our avatars will choose to do; In other words, the Father will be watching to see if it's necessary to send Christ early, vs the "no longer than" allotted time. When His government is established the other two-thirds of us (the other hosts of heaven) will then begin to participate inside of mortality. At that time, all will be treated equally...making the circumstances of mortality more desirable by those who chose to wait.

[_SteelHead]

Or we as a race could abandon all the religious bull crap that divides us, and heal that way.

[_spotlight]

spotlight, the actual program which follows the leader was very interesting. It shows some light upon the basics of having ideas.

You may not be as inclined toward Christian belief as I but I am enjoying your questioning the idea of spirit.

I think of spirit as a something which is built upon our biological functions. I think it is in the dimension of shared learning and caring where our biological functions takes on dimension which we call spirit. Spirit is not something we start with or even have a guarantee of. It is something that is being created within our life. As far as I am a Christian believer I think human spirit can touch the dimension of eternal by being included in the consciousness of God. If one does not believe in God the dimension of our human sharing remains spirit in the same sense I look for it as a believer. . It can contain all the hopes of religious faith though without God it recycles back to dissolution.

What is virtuous about a belief in a god? A believer would think this is obvious since they are trained to associate all that is good with the concept of belief in a god by definition. But all that is good exists also in the lives of those who do not have any religious beliefs or notions and so are not associated with any theistic concepts. So the idea for them of not believing in a god does not carry with it the idea that they reject goodness.

The religious often make the claim that those who disbelieve do so so they don't have to be accountable for their actions. In other words a desire to sin is behind their disbelief. As far as I have learned in life this is an imagined story made up in the minds of believers that does not reflect reality. It is created in order to prop up their world view which would falter without it.

When two people are each other's equal morally, why would the one who nurtures a belief be more virtuous?

(This post was prompted by your remark about the brain of those who do not believe in a god recycling back to dissolution.)

[_spotlight]

Jo,
Not all beliefs are on an equal footing. So using a label of "belief" to put two different epistemologies on an equal foundation is falacious.

I did come across a good article though that allows a degree of agreement with some of your observations.

http://qz.com/476722/be-careful-your-lo ... -religion/

[Guest]

The religious often make the claim that those who disbelieve do so so they don't have to be accountable for their actions. In other words a desire to sin is behind their disbelief. As far as I have learned in life this is an imagined story made up in the minds of believers that does not reflect reality. It is created in order to prop up their world view which would falter without it.

When two people are each other's equal morally, why would the one who nurtures a belief be more virtuous?

(This post was prompted by your remark about the brain of those who do not believe in a god recycling back to dissolution.)

Spotlight, I was a bit distracted when I finished that post. Even so I had a suspicion that it might need clarification. I had no intention to distinguish the fate of believers from that of unbelievers. I was viewing both under the same general arch of development. We all start to disintegrate over time until we are all gone. If there is actually a God that God could be a renewal of our spirits. That would apply to believers and unbelievers. Or if there is no God the finality of our eventual dissolution also works the same for believers and unbelievers.