You can enter the Kingdom of God right now.

[_Franktalk]

Jo,
Not all beliefs are on an equal footing. So using a label of "belief" to put two different epistemologies on an equal foundation is falacious.

I am curious what reference you used to judge beliefs?

[_Franktalk]

Spotlingt, I was a bit distracted when I finished that post. Even so I had a suspicion that it might need clarification. I had no intention to distinguish the fate of believers from that of unbelievers> I was viewing both under r the same general arch of development. We all start to disintegrate over time untill we are all gone. If there is actually a God that God could be a renewal of our spirits. That would apply to believers and unbelievers. Or if there is no God the finality of our eventual dissolution also works the same for believers and unbelievers.

Actually in my belief system lower level estates can become so bored they shut themselves off. Then the higher estate just makes a new one with no memories. The highest estate lives through the experience of the lower estates. The highest estate creates an environment so boredom can not manifest and cause a desire to end itself.

[_spotlight]

Jo,
Not all beliefs are on an equal footing. So using a label of "belief" to put two different epistemologies on an equal foundation is falacious.

I am curious what reference you used to judge beliefs?

Stalking me again?

The amount of evidence that exists to back up those beliefs. It's better to get a diagnosis of cancer from a radiologist than a Ouija board.

http://spaz.ca/aaron/school/science.html

[_SteelHead]

Your lower estates are blocked? Have you tried fiber?
http://www.hulu.com/watch/10304

[_SteelHead]

I judge all unevidenced beliefs equally - equally worthless.

[_Franktalk]

The amount of evidence that exists to back up those beliefs. It's better to get a diagnosis of cancer from a radiologist than a Ouija board.

Your evidence is not my evidence. Your belief system is not my belief system. Since you fail to understand my belief system it is your problem not mine. Using your belief system is worthless to me. And your examples are silly at best. You seem to be a caveman arguing with a man with a cell phone. Yes indeed you are the caveman, refusing to accept the idea of a cell phone.

[_Franktalk]

Your lower estates are blocked? Have you tried fiber?
http://www.hulu.com/watch/10304

Cute.

On a more serious note have you pondered eternity and what it would look like?

[_spotlight]

The amount of evidence that exists to back up those beliefs. It's better to get a diagnosis of cancer from a radiologist than a Ouija board.

Your evidence is not my evidence.

Wow, it's one thing to argue about a theory, but quite another to argue the facts for which the theory is presently the best explanation.

Your belief system is not my belief system.

I know. Mine uses GR to locate my position with GPS.

Since you fail to understand my belief system it is your problem not mine.

How is it a problem?

Using your belief system is worthless to me.

I know. It provides no basis for your remote viewing of Kolob.

And your examples are silly at best.

Yes it is silly to learn what we can to place constraints upon our models of the universe around us. How limiting to engage with reality. So many imaginary worlds suffer in the balance.

You seem to be a caveman arguing with a man with a cell phone. Yes indeed you are the caveman, refusing to accept the idea of a cell phone.

I am? But I am not alone in my cave. And you are the only one with a cell phone in your metaphor. Who are you talking to?

[_jo1952]

I judge all unevidenced beliefs equally - equally worthless.

Like when there was a division among people caused by those who believed the world was flat vs those who thought it was round? Those who thought it was flat refused to believe it was round because they had not been given any evidence which they deemed strong enough to change their minds....to change their perspective. Those that thought it was flat had been taught that it was flat...and by observing their world, their eyes could not make any distinction that it could possibly be round. Yet their belief and their eyes---and their observations made by their eyes---turned out to be incorrect.

Or, how about when it was believed that blood letting and using leeches could cure people. When people got sick, they looked to their "learned" and "wise" ones; and gave them power and authority over them and their bodies (not just over their minds)....and died.

The truth of science exists on shifting sand. Heck, science makes it a requirement that a standing, peer-reviewed, theory be believed when giving a test. A student can't pass a course if they don't profess the same belief. Yet, years later, the theory is no longer believed---even though a theory won't be allowed to be believed until it is deemed to have "enough" evidence---thus not considered worthless. However, since "evidence" keeps turning up, the original belief becomes myth.

I'm going to purposely use religious ideas to speak. Science stumbles and stifles itself by her own rules. That's because if a scientist comes up with a new theory or discovery which is not accepted by peer-review, their career can easily be destroyed. Yet, years later...and sometimes after the person who came up with the theory has already died...the scientific learned and wise ones decide that the theory was legitimate after all. That can't erase the damage done. Science had already stumbled....though they will come up with excuses which somehow washes away their sin, and they become justified for not believing something they will believe today.

As such, science is guilty of the same shortcomings for which they mock the religious. They can't see it though, because they will only allow themselves to believe what they think is the truth (and it will only be believed IF their learned and wise ones approve it) at any given moment. The power and authority given to that truth Trump's their willingness to admit that they were not correct---or that their learned and wise ones were incorrect; their egos won't let them. They have chosen which learned and wise ones they will give power and authority over their minds. They then see only through the eyes and ears of the tradition they chose to believe. They are burdened and laden with the very rules their own learned and wise ones established as law. Through their own justification, they don't take responsibility for missing the mark of their own law. So, they stumble; and they stifle their own progression.

[_Franktalk]

Spotlight,

The idea that man has a spirit has been around for some time. Many men choose to believe that man has a spirit. It is a belief system. It contains elements outside the realm of scientific study because it deals with things which can not be observed. You have stated that your belief system is in the scientific realm of observed matter and forces. So the very thing in which you choose not to study somehow you are an expert on that topic. I am sorry but you are the least qualified to make comments about things you exclude from your studies. Your constant droning on and on about evidence limited by your own worldview makes you the caveman in my post. Your own worldview will not let you examine evidence outside of what is considered evidence by your own definition. It is you that fails to see or comprehend what surrounds you. In your worldview you force all that you see into a clearly defined little box. That is your world view not mine.

I see around me a world filled by people who wish to know why they are here. I see people seek for an answer outside of the observed world. What you see are people who refuse to accept your limited view of the observed world. You think they are stupid and confused. You place yourself above all the people in the world who seek answers from the unseen.

In my world view I see all of us as the same. We all stumble around for answers to lifes most important questions. Who am I? Why am I here? And where do I go when I die? You have answered those questions to your satisfaction. You think that you are an accident of nature. You think life has no purpose. And you think that there is nothing after this life. Many have taken that view and are happy with their decision to believe they have found the correct answers. Which in this case are non-answers. But you don't stop there. You actively seek others who wish to keep seeking and argue with them about their quest. You take on the role of the preacher who wishes to save the masses from their own ignorance. But that view of yourself is only yours, it is not shared by others who still seek. To them you are a pest who is ignorant of a much greater reality. One in which you refuse to see.

Rev_3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

None of us see clearly. But some of us refuse to see at all.