Mormon God [fallen, saved, finite, exalted man ]

[_jo1952]

Mark 12:28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

1 Nephi 13: 41 And they must come according to the words which shall be established by the mouth of the Lamb; and the words of the Lamb shall be made known in the records of thy seed, as well as in the records of the twelve apostles of the Lamb; wherefore they both shall be established in one; for there is one God and one Shepherd over all the earth.

The "Lord" being referred to is the Son of God---our Christ. Christ has a unique and distinct role. He is the "shepherd" being referred to in the Book of Mormon. He is going to be our governor/administrator when He returns; "and the government shall be upon His shoulders". This is in keeping with how all other worlds...worlds without end....are run. We are literally His brothers and sisters; it is His role which distinguishes Him from the rest of us.

You keep seeing things in accordance with what has been taught you through the vehicle of religion. Religion does not teach the Real Truth about what is going on here. Christ and other True Messengers come from time to time to give us clues; but they won't ever interfere with our free will desires....and religion is one of those free will desires. However, they do teach their messages by using religious words in order not to interfere with the free will of those who desire to believe in religion. So, words such as "God" and "Lord" referred to in those verses are being used to convey a message that can't hamper with religious beliefs. If those words are seen and/or heard through the eyes of religion, they will not be interpreted by the eyes and ears spoken of by Christ and other True Messengers. Thus, these messengers protect the desires of those who want to believe in religion; but offer an opportunity to those who are willing to give up their religious beliefs to hear and see the real message of Christ and True Messengers.

There is no wrong or right; there IS free will to choose to believe whatever we want to believe. Christ and True Messengers give us Real Truth opportunities in order to abide by the rules of free will just in case there are those who want to be able to find it. It can't be found unless we give up what the world teaches us; be it concerning religion, science, politics, education, etc...

Whatever has happened inside of mortality only matters inasmuch as our experiences here serve a wise purpose for us outside of mortality. We discover whether or not we were able to treat each other nicely inside the circumstances of mortality. We are here for the purpose of experiencing opposition in all things compared to what we experience outside of mortality, where all we experience is perfection. We can't recognize any joy in something we have never experienced sorrow or suffering. As such, we are all right where we need to be.

[_Mittens]

Mark 12:28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

1 Nephi 13: 41 And they must come according to the words which shall be established by the mouth of the Lamb; and the words of the Lamb shall be made known in the records of thy seed, as well as in the records of the twelve apostles of the Lamb; wherefore they both shall be established in one; for there is one God and one Shepherd over all the earth.

The "Lord" being referred to is the Son of God---our Christ. Christ has a unique and distinct role. He is the "shepherd" being referred to in the Book of Mormon. He is going to be our governor/administrator when He returns; "and the government shall be upon His shoulders". This is in keeping with how all other worlds...worlds without end....are run. We are literally His brothers and sisters; it is His role which distinguishes Him from the rest of us.

You keep seeing things in accordance with what has been taught you through the vehicle of religion. Religion does not teach the Real Truth about what is going on here. Christ and other True Messengers come from time to time to give us clues; but they won't ever interfere with our free will desires....and religion is one of those free will desires. However, they do teach their messages by using religious words in order not to interfere with the free will of those who desire to believe in religion. So, words such as "God" and "Lord" referred to in those verses are being used to convey a message that can't hamper with religious beliefs. If those words are seen and/or heard through the eyes of religion, they will not be interpreted by the eyes and ears spoken of by Christ and other True Messengers. Thus, these messengers protect the desires of those who want to believe in religion; but offer an opportunity to those who are willing to give up their religious beliefs to hear and see the real message of Christ and True Messengers.

There is no wrong or right; there IS free will to choose to believe whatever we want to believe. Christ and True Messengers give us Real Truth opportunities in order to abide by the rules of free will just in case there are those who want to be able to find it. It can't be found unless we give up what the world teaches us; be it concerning religion, science, politics, education, etc...

Whatever has happened inside of mortality only matters inasmuch as our experiences here serve a wise purpose for us outside of mortality. We discover whether or not we were able to treat each other nicely inside the circumstances of mortality. We are here for the purpose of experiencing opposition in all things compared to what we experience outside of mortality, where all we experience is perfection. We can't recognize any joy in something we have never experienced sorrow or suffering. As such, we are all right where we need to be.

There's nothing in the Book of Mormon or Bible that teaches your post

[_jo1952]

There's nothing in the Book of Mormon or Bible that teaches your post

Much of what I wrote is absolutely in scripture. In order to be able to understand what Christ was trying to teach us, we need to give up what the world taught about religion....and so much of what the Jews believed as being part of their religion was actually fable. The Jews followed the commandments of men; and following the commandments of men causes us to be turned from the truth. Why did Christ think it was so necessary to keep preaching with the words "he that has eyes let him see" and "he that has ears let him hear"? Because the people could only see and hear with the eyes and ears of their religious beliefs. If a person can stop seeing and hearing through religion, they can open their minds and start seeing and hearing what Christ really tried to teach. In order to NOT interfere with free will...which included the people's desire to believe in religion...Christ did not teach plainly. He left it up to the people to determine what they chose to believe.

Titus 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

1 Timothy 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

2 Peter 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

The importance of free will, if not exactly expressed, is greatly implied. While Christ taught many things, He never forced anyone to accept His teachings. They could cling to religion if that's what they wanted to do...though He did say that if they were going to do so, they should do it better than the scribes and Pharisees. That's why the Sermon on the Mount first addresses their religion's laws, but then also follows up with Father's will. People still focus only on "law" and ignore Father's will.

As far as being related to Christ (these are just examples...it is not all inclusive):

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Matthew 12:48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?

49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Christ knew us before we entered mortality (which also indicates that we existed before we entered mortality):

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

These are just a few examples which back up what I've claimed. It is only after you believe what Christ taught that you will be able to see and hear other aspects of what I've shared.

If you would spend time to see when "prophets"/True Messengers came to teach the people, you will be able to see that they DO come from time to time. You will see that their messages are pretty much ignored (such as the Lord's message given to Isaiah about religion---See Isaiah 1:11-14), they were often killed, and their words got twisted in order to fit the paradigm of the people's religious beliefs. It's there; but it can only be seen if what the world has taught the Bible teaches gets thrown out.

For instance, it can be seen that when people want religion...or more religion than they already have, True Messengers give it to them. Moses did it, Christ did it in the Book of Mormon, and Joseph Smith did it. It was given in accordance with the people's free will desire to have it. OTOH, and in order to still have Real Truth available here in mortality, True Messengers also gave clues to the Real Truth. It can be found if you have the eyes to see and the ears to hear. It is given in such a way that the religious can continue to believe in religion due to their blind eyes and deaf ears; while also satisfying the free will desire to be able to find it...so it must be made available. That is what those with the eyes to see and the ears to hear will be able to see and hear. It isn't required that you find it...because that would interfere with free will. There are rewards if you do; but there is no penalty for not finding it. All that will happen is that in mortality, if a person chooses not to believe what Christ taught, then they aren't going to figure out what is going on here. That is when they will remain inside of their religion...they will continue to be chained to the ideas of religious belief such as heaven, hell, sin, fear of "God", "God", "satan", etc. Christ's message frees us from those chains (that is the reward)...but only when we are able to see and hear. And we can only see and hear after we believe what He taught.

I am still wondering why you haven't addressed Christ's teaching that His work was finished before Gethsemane and the cross. I think it is because you have believed the tradition of what "Christianity" teaches, even though that is not what Christ taught. This, in addition to your flat statement with the mocking laughing smiley, indicates to me that you don't know how to answer such questions when they are presented to you. Meh, Christ allows us to believe whatever we want to believe. The consequence for not believing what He taught is that, while we are in mortality, we aren't going to be able understand Him or be able to believe our true identity. Religion draws us away from the truth about Him and about us. Christianity is more concerned about what to believe than Christ was. He forgave those who killed Him. They had not "repented", they had not sought for forgiveness, and they certainly had not accepted Christ or His teachings. It is Christianity that claims these things must be done in order to be saved.

[_Franktalk]

There's nothing in the Book of Mormon or Bible that teaches your post

The blind lead others into a ditch. Open your eyes and see. It is all there for those who can see.

The current generally accepted understanding of the scriptures is completely wrong. That is why the church remains under condemnation. It also explains why the church has not received the greater portion.

Alma 12

10 And therefore, he that will
harden his heart, the same receiveth
the lesser portion of the word;
and he that will not harden his
heart, to him is given the greater
portion of the word, until it is given
unto him to know the mysteries of
God until he know them in full.
11 And they that will harden their
hearts, to them is given the lesser
portion of the word until they know
nothing concerning his mysteries;
and then they are taken captive by
the devil, and led by his will down
to destruction. Now this is what is
meant by the chains of d hell.

Of course you can prove me wrong. Just give me a link to the greater portion received by the church. If you can not then the church is in this state: "And they that will harden their
hearts, to them is given the lesser portion of the word until they know nothing concerning his mysteries; ..."

To know nothing means you reject truth even when it comes your way. If the church can't figure out the Book of Mormon why would God give the church more. Many hints at truth given by Joseph Smith have been discarded by the church. That is why the church knows nothing of the mysteries of God.

Has any prophet of the church explained Alma 12 verses 10 and 11?

Examples

The Book of Mormon teaches that genealogy is of man.
The original D and C teaches one man one wife.

Why would God give more to those who refuse to read what He has already given?

[_Mittens]

Could you paraphrase these text to explain what your getting at ?

[_Franktalk]

Could you paraphrase these text to explain what your getting at ?

Sure, there are some places in scripture that tell us what the future holds. The book of Revelation is one of them. But it is written with so much symbolism no one has figured it out. However, there was another prophecy that said John would interpret the book and make it available for the world before Christ' return. John has done this. I looked for ten years before I found it. Now in keeping with the rules the prophets follow a second witness of the gospel had to be brought to the earth. This was done in the Book of Mormon. The gospel are only those words shared between the two books. Included in the Book of Mormon is a statement about another book in addition to the Book of Mormon. It is called the greater portion or sealed portion. The statement concerning this new book is in Alma chapter 12 verses 10 and 11. In the statement it declares that the greater portion would be given only if the future church (now LDS) would hold to the teachings of the Book of Mormon. The current church is far removed from the teachings in the Book of Mormon so the greater portion is not in the church. The LDS church is still under condemnation as it was before Joseph Smith died.

The LDS church has over time become like most other Christian churches. They all follow doctrines that are far removed from the gospel message. So today there is no church which teaches truth. They all suffer in unbelief.

No matter which church you find if you compare that church against Matt 5,6,7 you will find they do not teach nor follow the gospel.

[_Mittens]

The LDS have a long established method for determining their doctrine and the Journal of Discourses isn't it.
SEE Not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. A single statement made by a single leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, but is not meant to be officially binding for the whole Church. With divine inspiration, the First Presidency (the prophet and his two counselors) and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (the second-highest governing body of the Church) counsel together to establish doctrine that is consistently proclaimed in official Church publications. This doctrine resides in the four “standard works” of scripture (the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price), official declarations and proclamations, and the Articles of Faith. Isolated statements are often taken out of context, leaving their original meaning distorted.

The Seer has never been recognized by the Church.

In the LDS religion Jesus is a God who has a body of flesh and bone. That someday we can be like him. Sorry if other Christians don't accept what their own Bible says.
SEE https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=KJV

The LDS don't claim to know all there is to know about God. In fact while they claim to know more about God they believe He will yet revel more about himself and his kingdom.
SEE Article of Faith #9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

Was so-called Apostle Orson Pratt a recognized leader

[_dberrie2000]

SThe Bible also teaches Jesus is the ONE TRUE GOD
”The life appeared, we have seen it and testified to it, and we proclaim to you the Eternal Life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.” 1 John 1:2 King James and we are in him who is the true even in his son Jesus, He is the True God and Eternal Life,” 1 John 5:20 King James

But never the "one God" of the Biblical New Testament. The New Testament writers always separated God the Son out from the "one God" of the Biblical New Testament:


1 Timothy 2:5---King James Version (KJV)
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

[_Mittens]

SThe Bible also teaches Jesus is the ONE TRUE GOD
”The life appeared, we have seen it and testified to it, and we proclaim to you the Eternal Life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.” 1 John 1:2 King James and we are in him who is the true even in his son Jesus, He is the True God and Eternal Life,” 1 John 5:20 King James

But never the "one God" of the Biblical New Testament. The New Testament writers always separated God the Son out from the "one God" of the Biblical New Testament:


1 Timothy 2:5---King James Version (KJV)
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

The Bible is clear , Jesus is ONE GOD of the New Testament

1. “To those who through the righteousness of Our God and Savior Jesus Christ,” 2 Peter 1:1
Emphatic Diaglott

2. “The glorious appearing of our Great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,” Titus 2:13 Emphatic Diaglott

3.”Keep watch over yourself and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has you overseer. Be shepherds of the Church of God, which he bought with his own blood.” Acts 20:28 New International V
4.”Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all forever praised amen” Romans 9:5 King James

5.”The life appeared, we have seen it and testified to it, and we proclaim to you the Eternal Life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.” 1 John 1:2 King James and we are in him who is the true even in his son Jesus, He is the True God and Eternal Life,” 1 John 5:20 King James

6.”In the beginning, was the WORD, and the WORD was with GOD and the WORD was GOD Himself.” John 1:1 Amplified Version

7.”And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness; GOD was manifested in the flesh.” 1 Timothy 3:16 King James

8.”and Thomas answered and said to him “ My LORD and my God,” Jesus said to him :Thomas because you have seen me you have believed,” John 20:28 King James

9.”for in him dwells all the fullness of the GODHEAD BODILY,” Colossians 2:9 King James “GODHEAD” {Greek-Theotetos}. In Thayers Greek page 288; The state of being God

10.”who although being essentially one with God and in the Form of God {possessing the fullness of the attributes which make GOD GOD} did not think this equality with God was a thing to be grasped or retained.” Philippians 2:6 Amplified version

11.”No one has seen God {referring to the Father} BUT GOD the One and Only, who is at the Fathers side has made him known.” John 1:18 New International {Jehovah GOD was seen many times by the people, so in them cases it couldn’t be the Father, {had to be Jesus who was seen and called Jehovah.

“Moses and Aaron, Nahab and Abihu, and seventy of the Elders went up and saw God of Israel under his feet was something like pavement made of sapphire, clear as the sky it self, but God did not raise his hand against these leaders of Israelites, they saw God, and they ate and drank,” Exodus 24:9-11

“at this point the men turned from there way to Sodom but as for JEHOVAH he was standing still before Abraham….then JEHOVAH went his way when he had finished speaking to Abraham.” Genesis 18:22-33 New World Translation Genesis 18:2 says three men appeared to Abraham, two are identified as angels {Genesis 19:1} ONE IS IDENTIFIED AS JEHOVAH GOD Genesis 18:1,3,13,14,17,20,22,26,27,31,32 and 33

Genesis 19: 27
Now Abraham got up early in the morning and went to the place where he had stood before Jehovah

[_dberrie2000]

The Bible also teaches Jesus is the ONE TRUE GOD
”The life appeared, we have seen it and testified to it, and we proclaim to you the Eternal Life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.” 1 John 1:2 King James and we are in him who is the true even in his son Jesus, He is the True God and Eternal Life,” 1 John 5:20 King James

But never the "one God" of the Biblical New Testament. The New Testament writers always separated God the Son out from the "one God" of the Biblical New Testament:

1 Timothy 2:5---King James Version (KJV)
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;[/quote]

The Bible is clear , Jesus is ONE GOD of the New Testament

1. “To those who through the righteousness of Our God and Savior Jesus Christ,” 2 Peter 1:1
Emphatic Diaglott

2. “The glorious appearing of our Great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,” Titus 2:13 Emphatic Diaglott

3.”Keep watch over yourself and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has you overseer. Be shepherds of the Church of God, which he bought with his own blood.” Acts 20:28 New International V
4.”Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all forever praised amen” Romans 9:5 King James

5.”The life appeared, we have seen it and testified to it, and we proclaim to you the Eternal Life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.” 1 John 1:2 King James and we are in him who is the true even in his son Jesus, He is the True God and Eternal Life,” 1 John 5:20 King James

6.”In the beginning, was the WORD, and the WORD was with GOD and the WORD was GOD Himself.” John 1:1 Amplified Version

7.”And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness; GOD was manifested in the flesh.” 1 Timothy 3:16 King James

8.”and Thomas answered and said to him “ My LORD and my God,” Jesus said to him :Thomas because you have seen me you have believed,” John 20:28 King James

9.”for in him dwells all the fullness of the GODHEAD BODILY,” Colossians 2:9 King James “GODHEAD” {Greek-Theotetos}. In Thayers Greek page 288; The state of being God

10.”who although being essentially one with God and in the Form of God {possessing the fullness of the attributes which make GOD GOD} did not think this equality with God was a thing to be grasped or retained.” Philippians 2:6 Amplified version

11.”No one has seen God {referring to the Father} BUT GOD the One and Only, who is at the Fathers side has made him known.” John 1:18 New International {Jehovah GOD was seen many times by the people, so in them cases it couldn’t be the Father, {had to be Jesus who was seen and called Jehovah.

“Moses and Aaron, Nahab and Abihu, and seventy of the Elders went up and saw God of Israel under his feet was something like pavement made of sapphire, clear as the sky it self, but God did not raise his hand against these leaders of Israelites, they saw God, and they ate and drank,” Exodus 24:9-11

“at this point the men turned from there way to Sodom but as for JEHOVAH he was standing still before Abraham….then JEHOVAH went his way when he had finished speaking to Abraham.” Genesis 18:22-33 New World Translation Genesis 18:2 says three men appeared to Abraham, two are identified as angels {Genesis 19:1} ONE IS IDENTIFIED AS JEHOVAH GOD Genesis 18:1,3,13,14,17,20,22,26,27,31,32 and 33

Genesis 19: 27
Now Abraham got up early in the morning and went to the place where he had stood before Jehovah

Sorry, I don't find God the Son assigned the designation of the "one God" anywhere in your New Testament quotes.

In case you might be looking--here are the New Testament quotes--which separates out God the Son from the "one God" of the Biblical New Testament:

1 Corinthians 8:6---King James Version (KJV)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

1 Timothy 2:5---King James Version (KJV)
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Ephesians 4:4-6---King James Version (KJV)
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.