My Favorite (to date) take down of Creationism.

[_LittleNipper]

My understanding is that there will be no sexual desires in heaven.

At least muslims get 70 (77?) virgins.

Change your god...

And what do the 77 virgin Muslims end up with --- a Muslim fornicator?

[_Gunnar]

I also love that God gave Adam a bellybutton (which is a scar from umbilical cord) because he knew that human reproduction would cause that scar. Yet, Nipper isn't sure that God knew his creation was going to reproduce?

Did Adam have hair and nails? Did he slough dead skin cells or no?

God knew that man would reproduce. God commanded reproduction. The issue is that babies were not conceived until after the Fall. Angels were not meant to procreate and man was created a little lower than the angels. So while humans are mortal, they can reproduce; however, after the end of this life, humans put on immortality of a kind that apparently never existed prior to Adam's Fall. What all this means is that had Adam and Eve never sinned, their children would have been born without sin. Humanity would have populated the earth and maybe other planets or God would have ended procreation when He saw fit.

However, with thousands upon thousands upon thousands of saved individuals (from millennia past, present, future) there is no need to procreate. And unlike Adam and Eve, the saved are now sealed. Memories of past mortal life events obliterated forever. Mortals cannot fathom life without sex or even time. We are presently still trying to visualize eternity with our perceptions still focused in the here and now.

I believe that Adam was a very handsome healthy athletic 30 year old looking dude. Eve would have been a natural beauty made for Adam to love.

Did God create the angels too? Why did God decide he needed to create man and make man a little lower than the angels? Did he want the angels to have some beings to whom they could fell superior? If God could have created angels as beings who were immortal to begin with, who never needed to procreate and who were not prone to sin, why would he have chosen to also create beings like us who he knew would eventually sin, lose their immortality and would have to procreate? None of this makes any sense whatsoever. The more you try to explain and justify your religious belief system, the less sense it makes to any rational mind!

[_Franktalk]

Did God create the angels too? Why did God decide he needed to create man and make man a little lower than the angels? Did he want the angels to have some beings to whom they could fell superior? If God could have created angels as beings who were immortal to begin with, who never needed to procreate and who were not prone to sin, why would he have chosen to also create beings like us who he knew would eventually sin, lose their immortality and would have to procreate? None of this makes any sense whatsoever. The more you try to explain and justify your religious belief system, the less sense it makes to any rational mind!

I have to agree. I think the real story cuts out a lot of the strange beliefs in religion. I think the real story is more in line with advanced science. I think the real story must make sense.

[_jo1952]

Did God create the angels too? Why did God decide he needed to create man and make man a little lower than the angels? Did he want the angels to have some beings to whom they could fell superior? If God could have created angels as beings who were immortal to begin with, who never needed to procreate and who were not prone to sin, why would he have chosen to also create beings like us who he knew would eventually sin, lose their immortality and would have to procreate? None of this makes any sense whatsoever. The more you try to explain and justify your religious belief system, the less sense it makes to any rational mind!

I think that with the advancements being made in technology, it is easier to believe what I now believe. We are advanced humans (as derived from the teaching of three estates, the advanced humans are those participating in the second estate of our existence) who are sending avatars into the mortal world (the third estate of our existence) for the purpose of experiencing opposition in all things. Mortal man's computerized gaming is allowing us to imagine that much much more is possible than what was believed yesterday. I think we are the "gods" of imagined religious belief; and Christ tried to teach this to us. We advanced humans are watching our avatars participate inside of mortality; we are remotely viewing the events taking place here.

As far as procreation....we have been taught by "prophets"...or "True Messengers (TMs)" that a third of the hosts of heaven "fell". Inasmuch as TMs teach according to the already established beliefs of the religious, the TMs will use the words/terminology of religion to teach their message. I now think that the third of the hosts of heaven is indicative of those who are participating in this particular eternal round (our solar system) who decided to enter mortality before Christ set up the government which will guaranty that we can play in this mortal realm with the ability to do so with unhampered free will. The religious believe that this world lives in sin (sin is an idea dreamed up as a part of dreamed up religion [which is really just a belief system of our vain imagination]). Once Christ returns, religion will be abandoned...it must be abandoned in order for unhampered free will to be a possibility. At that point, those entering into mortality will no longer be "fallen" or "born of sin" (religion, having been abandoned, thus also the idea of sin will also be abandoned---therefore, it will be impossible to be born in sin). That is when the remaining two-thirds of the hosts of heaven will start participating in mortality. Procreation is necessary to provide mortal bodies which our advanced self uses as the "temple" or playing piece. With technological advancements, it won't be necessary to create mortal bodies in the same manner as has been done. However, if it is the desire of the avatar to experience childbirth, they certainly will be allowed to (and the gender of the one who desires it will not restrict the experience to only a female body). More than likely, the majority of the those entering mortality will enter a mortal body which was not formed inside of a mortal womb.

[_SteelHead]

So jo, is there any actual evidence you can point at to support this conjecture?

[_Franktalk]

So jo, is there any actual evidence you can point at to support this conjecture?

She can respond on her own but I would like to comment on this. Evidence no but it seems we are on the path to all of this with advancements in science. Can we make life outside of a mothers womb? Sure we can. In just a few years we will have artificial wombs to grow any species we wish.

https://www.geneticliteracyproject.org/ ... ss-births/

Others ideas in her comments come from an interpretation of the scriptures. Since we all have our own views on that ranging from total rejection to literal acceptance it would be impossible to provide any argument that would sway anyone. Yet that failure is not proof that the interpretation is false. It may also be true that many stumble on the scriptures to their own destruction. (incorrect belief)

2Pe_3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

If nothing else this tells us that most people have it wrong. Also:

Mat_7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

So how many is a few? Is it 100 on the whole earth? Maybe.

By the way "life" here in Mat 7:14 refers to understanding what reality actually is so death has no sting.

Anyway just some stuff off the top of my head.

[_SteelHead]

So a life view based on conjecture and private scripture interpretation.



Got it.

[_jo1952]

So a life view based on conjecture and private scripture interpretation.



Got it.

Because of what we can see through the advancements in technology, it is much easier for me to believe what Christ was trying to teach us about ourselves, than the even bigger leap of faith it takes to believe in some of the theories of science. Science hasn't proven some of her biggest; though she has proclaimed some long and loud enough...being able to convince others to agree through a show of hands...that she now proclaims her theories to be truth rather than just theories. In other words, they aren't treated as theories....they are believed to be the actual truth.

The reason that belief in religion...and even in science...will cause our own destruction has to do with the way our beliefs treat others. The destruction is being caused by those whose basic necessities of life aren't being met. Christ did not attempt to convince anyone to give up their belief systems. That would have interfered with free will. He DID give us a recipe for how to treat each other; of course, we haven't done it. IF we had been able to give up what the world teaches in order that we could also have been able to believe what He had to say about who we really are, then, our belief that WE are the "Father" would have motivated us to implement His recipe with earnestness. ALSO, if we could accept who we really are and what is really going on here, then our study of science would be perceived through different eyes and ears. We would then come to different conclusions about our observations. Our advancements would be quicker...and more thorough....as they would be coupled with implementing how to make sure that the needs (NOT the wants...but the needs) of ALL mankind were being satisfied.

Free will is the most important thing about existence for human beings...be they experiencing their existence in the first, second, and or third estate; however, it can't be fully exercised in mortality at this point in time. Nonetheless, our participation inside of mortality BEFORE free will can be fully exercised, turns out to be something of great use to us anyway. There is nothing that has been created that hasn't had the ability to fulfill the measure of its creation. We are the most important beings that have ever existed...or ever will existed. Everything that is in world has been created for our own use and purpose....man is that he might have joy (not necessarily inside of mortality....but always in our other levels of existence). As eternal beings who have always existed, everything we do is purposed to bring us joy. Opposition inside of mortality is one of the things which has the ability to allow us to enjoy our perfectness outside of mortality/imperfectness.

Do I have 100% provable evidence? What good would being able to prove this, when it is the experience that holds the importance of our being here? Eternal beings would understandably have all knowledge; it doesn't take much to therefore believe that an eternal being is much smarter than a mortal man. Our advanced self understands why the avatar isn't given the ability to prove why we are here. Meanwhile, some will say that this is crazy; but, again, I say that it is easier to accept than the leaps of faith required by either religion or science. Religion doesn't want to give up their beliefs because to them it would be blasphemy. Science doesn't want to give up her beliefs because she would have to admit that her theories aren't accurate. No one wants to admit that they have been deceived. No one can ever believe anything they don't want to believe. If they are happy with what the world is teaching them, there just isn't going to be any room inside of their minds to allow for any other possibilities.

The interpretation Frank and I now hold to in scripture is completely outside of the box of what religion teaches is held in scripture. We believe that our advanced selves send True Messengers inside of mortality to help debunk what the world wants us to believe. Religion being the biggest obstacle to confuse the mind of the avatar is where most TMs are sent. Religion takes the message of the TM and twists it to fit their already established religious beliefs. However, if one can give up the religious interpretation of what a TM is trying to teach, it becomes easy to discard the bs of religious interpretation and religious fable, and recognize what the TM was trying to teach.

No one has to believe what we believe. We are free-willed beings. It's just that inside of mortality, the choices of what to believe---even though they are being made by the avatar---have consequences as to how all of the other avatars are treated. The avatars whose basic needs aren't being met are already rising against us. They are the sleeping lions spoken of in scripture. Their rising up is going to destroy the pursuit of other avatars to do the things they want....even when it comes to pursuing science. It's going to take the return of the "Christ" to establish a "righteous" government and His making sure that all of the basic needs of everyone participating inside of mortality are met. That is when the real "game" of mortality can begin because that is when we will be able to exercise 100% of our free will while we participate. These things can also be seen in scripture....though they are hidden because the religious only have the eyes and ears of religion to see them through. They remain hidden to the non-religious because the non-religious aren't able to accept what Christ was trying to teach either.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter one way or the other....as eternal beings, our participation inside of mortality is only temporary. Our choices made here cannot change who we really are and who we have always been.

[_SteelHead]

So building upon the basis of 6th century bc shepherds we add 1st century messianic mythos with conjecture about aliens, and hyper technological beings.................. All of it with 0 supporting evidence.

Got it.

[_jo1952]

So building upon the basis of 6th century bc shepherds we add 1st century messianic mythos with conjecture about aliens, and hyper technological beings.................. All of it with 0 supporting evidence.

Got it.

Science theorizes the world was created through happenstance. Science is obsessed with studying what was created in this manner. Her most brilliant minds cannot yet comprehend how this happenstance then evolved into something she can't yet recreate---despite the efforts of so many learned people. Science is doing her studies on purpose (not by happenstance)...this observing of happenstance. Even on purpose, she can't recreate what took place by chance. Yet, her theory that it was by chance is believed to be the truth. She thinks there could not possibly have been any other cause of how we came to be. Her "evidence" is still not proven....the theory was arrived at through conjecture.

Got it.