My Favorite (to date) take down of Creationism.

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_Maksutov
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Re: My Favorite (to date) take down of Creationism.

Post by _Maksutov »

DrW wrote:
Gunnar wrote: He just resents that reality so often conflicts with what he would rather believe.

Great observation.

I shutter to imagine what shape we would all be in if more folks like LN were let loose to run the country. The anti-reality minority religious right wing in the minority (26%) Republican party has done quite enough damage already.


James Imhofe and Louis Gohmert come to mind. But there are so, so many others...
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_LittleNipper
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Re: My Favorite (to date) take down of Creationism.

Post by _LittleNipper »

spotlight wrote:
LittleNipper wrote:No, it wouldn't because atheists and agnostics and liberal religious leaders now control the education process. They will not allow anything that may support a religious and not a secular point of view in state run institutions. And they have the full backing presently of a majority in the Supreme Court.

It's a conspiracy theory now is it? Look there is nobody to refrain you from explaining this is there? An FBI agent with a gun to your head? Is that it? Otherwise you'd answer my post?

So again, why is it that the history of civilizations exist before during and after the flood without a hiccup?


So I would be free to say the same in a public school classroom and there would be no legal repercussions. Civilization only extends back about 4500 years. The Flood occurred before that time. And since you don't accept the historicity of the Bible, I can only imagine that you couldn't possibly be accepting the religiously driven historical accounts found of other ancient people (This meaning that the Pharaoh is in charge because he can trace his linage back to the time of the gods).

You are not that bias are you?
_SteelHead
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Re: My Favorite (to date) take down of Creationism.

Post by _SteelHead »

Except for the civilizations that are 12k years old.....
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6bekli_Tepe
It is better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener at war.

Some of us, on the other hand, actually prefer a religion that includes some type of correlation with reality.
~Bill Hamblin
_spotlight
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Re: My Favorite (to date) take down of Creationism.

Post by _spotlight »

LittleNipper,

Since you often quote from this source I'll take it as representing your view of the date for the flood.
The Biblical data places the Flood at 2304 BC ± 11 years. The Biblical data places the Flood at 2304 BC ± 11 years.

http://creation.com/the-date-of-noahs-flood

The Neolithic

The Neolithic age in China can be traced back to about 10,000 BC.[10]
Early evidence for proto-Chinese millet agriculture is radiocarbon-dated to about 7000 BC.[11] The earliest evidence of cultivated rice, found by the Yangtze River, is carbon-dated to 8,000 years ago.[12] Farming gave rise to the Jiahu culture (7000 to 5800 BC). At Damaidi in Ningxia, 3,172 cliff carvings dating to 6000–5000 BC have been discovered, "featuring 8,453 individual characters such as the sun, moon, stars, gods and scenes of hunting or grazing." These pictographs are reputed to be similar to the earliest characters confirmed to be written Chinese.[13] Chinese proto-writing existed in Jiahu around 7000 BC,[14] Dadiwan from 5800 BC to 5400 BC, Damaidi around 6000 BC[15] and Banpo dating from the 5th millennium BC. Some scholars have suggested that Jiahu symbols (7th millennium BC) were the earliest Chinese writing system.[14] Excavation of a Peiligang culture site in Xinzheng county, Henan, found a community that flourished in 5,500 to 4,900 BC, with evidence of agriculture, constructed buildings, pottery, and burial of the dead.[16] With agriculture came increased population, the ability to store and redistribute crops, and the potential to support specialist craftsmen and administrators.[12] In late Neolithic times, the Yellow River valley began to establish itself as a center of Yangshao culture (5000 BC to 3000 BC), and the first villages were founded; the most archaeologically significant of these was found at Banpo, Xi'an.[17] Later, Yangshao culture was superseded by the Longshan culture, which was also centered on the Yellow River from about 3000 BC to 2000 BC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_China

Of course we have the following which altogether disproves the biblical account as you interpret it:

Paleolithic

What is now China was inhabited by Homo erectus more than a million years ago.[7] Recent study shows that the stone tools found at Xiaochangliang site are magnetostratigraphically dated to 1.36 million years ago.[8] The archaeological site of Xihoudu in Shanxi Province is the earliest recorded use of fire by Homo erectus, which is dated 1.27 million years ago.[7] The excavations at Yuanmou and later Lantian show early habitation. Perhaps the most famous specimen of Homo erectus found in China is the so-called Peking Man discovered in 1923–27. Fossilised teeth of Homo sapiens dating to 125,000–80,000 BCE have been discovered in Fuyan Cave in Dao County in Hunan.[9]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_China

The Golden Age of Chinese Archaeology: Late Prehistoric China [National Gallery of Art]
Teaching materials developed in conjunction with the exhibition The Golden Age of Chinese Archaeology: Celebrated Discoveries from The People's Republic of China. Organized into four sections, each with images and descriptions of 4 to 6 related objects. This section discusses late neolithic China and pottery and jade objects from four cultures: Hongshan (ca. 4700-2920 BCE), Henan Yangshao (ca. 3500-3000 BCE), Liangzhu (ca. 3300-2200 BCE), and Taosi Longshan (ca. 2500-1900 BCE).

http://afe.easia.columbia.edu/tps/4000bce.htm

The Longshan culture is a Neolithic and Chalcolithic culture (ca 3000-1900 BC) of the Yellow River Valley of Shandong, Henan, Shanxi, Shaanxi, and Inner Mongolia provinces of China.

http://archaeology.about.com/od/lterms/qt/longshan.htm

So we have a continuity of civilization existing before your flood, during your flood, and after your flood in China.
Kolob’s set time is “one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest” (Abraham 3:4). I take this as a round number. - Gee
_spotlight
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Re: My Favorite (to date) take down of Creationism.

Post by _spotlight »

LittleNipper,

The longest continuing religion in the world belongs to Australia's Aborigines, with the Rainbow Serpent mythology recorded in rock shelter paintings believed to be 7,000 years old in the Kakadu National Park region, where this Ancestral Being is still important to local people. Other ancient rock art shows the many customs and Ancestral Beings (deities or gods) important in Aboriginal religion tens of thousands of years ago.
Ancient Aboriginal rock art in the Kimberley, Western Australia. Photo: David M. Welch.

Although lacking a formal written language, for thousands of years Aborigines have recorded their culture as rock art. Their art shows images of the environment, such as the plants and animals, including images of animals believed to have become extinct 20,000 to 40,000 years ago. This rock art tradition, mainly as paintings in rock shelters and as engravings on exposed rocks, has continued to the present. Some of the most ancient paintings, in rock shelters in northern Australia, depict people dressed for ceremony and dancing, with similar body decoration and accoutrements to those worn in ceremonies to this day, again revealing the great age of Aboriginal culture.

http://www.aboriginalculture.com.au/introduction.shtml

So we have the aboriginal culture existing before, during and after the flood.
Kolob’s set time is “one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest” (Abraham 3:4). I take this as a round number. - Gee
_spotlight
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Re: My Favorite (to date) take down of Creationism.

Post by _spotlight »

LittleNipper,

Between 3100 and 2800 BC the Great Cursus 300 yards from Stonehenge had been constructed - nearly one and a half miles long and 150 yards wide, on an east-west alignment.

From about 2500 BC onwards, the first stones arrived.

Now, at an accelerating speed, the next hundred years, around 2000 BC, saw the construction of the sarsens.

http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/stone ... ehenge.php

So Stonehenge was constructed over a period of time beginning before the flood and finishing after the flood.
Kolob’s set time is “one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest” (Abraham 3:4). I take this as a round number. - Gee
_ludwigm
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Re: My Favorite (to date) take down of Creationism.

Post by _ludwigm »

spotlight wrote:LittleNipper,

Since you often quote from this source I'll take it as representing your view of the date for the flood.
The Biblical data places the Flood at 2304 BC ± 11 years. The Biblical data places the Flood at 2304 BC ± 11 years.

...
So we have a continuity of civilization existing before your flood, during your flood, and after your flood in China.

The religious neurons are interconnected weird way.

My wife used to learn - amomg others - nuclear physics, after graduating she could have worked for Institute of Physics, University of Debrecen. Instead, she has chosen to become a math-phys teacher. She has taught in middle school (high in US...) and in college.

She believes in flood, don't find any negative in the Elisha's bear story (today's topic of institute) and TBM since two decades.
And she refuses to read the essays on LDS.org, because "to your liar internet anybody can put anything on". (her words...)
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco
- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
_spotlight
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Re: My Favorite (to date) take down of Creationism.

Post by _spotlight »

LittleNipper,

The Indus Valley Civilisation (IVC) was a Bronze Age civilisation (3300–1300 BCE; mature period 2600–1900 BCE) mainly in northwest South Asia, extending from what today is northeast Afghanistan to Pakistan and northwest India.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indus_Valley_Civilisation
Kolob’s set time is “one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest” (Abraham 3:4). I take this as a round number. - Gee
_spotlight
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Re: My Favorite (to date) take down of Creationism.

Post by _spotlight »

LittleNipper,

Egypt went right on through your flood.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egypt

--------------------------

As does Mesopotamia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesopotamia

----------------------------

Same with the Minoan civilization.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minoan_civilization

--------------------------

In south America we have the Kotash tradition during the flood in the Andes.

The Kotosh Religious Tradition is a term used by archaeologists to refer to the ritual buildings that were constructed in the mountain drainages of the Andes between circa 3000 and c.1800 BCE, during the Andean preceramic, or Late Archaic period of Andean history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kotosh_Re ... _Tradition
Kolob’s set time is “one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest” (Abraham 3:4). I take this as a round number. - Gee
_Franktalk
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Re: My Favorite (to date) take down of Creationism.

Post by _Franktalk »

spotlight wrote:Gunnar,
Franktalk does not care about renewable energy. He wants us to move back into the caves.


I actually want way more technology than we have today. I sure would like a model 2.0 body of flesh. This one wears out easy and is prone to pick up defects. Of course when we figure out how to clone bodies and transfer the mind I would be happy with that for a while.
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