Science is a tool that can be abused!

[_Maksutov]

I've only had one love affair in my life so far. The one with my wife of almost 44 years. I don't expect that will change. On The Other Hand being an old retired Psychiatric Social Worker I know that isn't always the case for everyone.

You're very fortunate and you must be doing some things right. I doff my miter to you.

[_spotlight]

Is the earth hollow? There is plenty of evidence against it. But even if it was, it wouldn't have any relevance to what I believe about God. Why do I have to trust them? I'm fine with people believing anything they want, but their beliefs can't dictate what I believe.

Is the church true? There is plenty of evidence against it. But even if it was, it wouldn't have any relevance to what I believe about God. Why do I have to trust them (the leaders)? I'm fine with people (leaders) believing anything they want, but their beliefs (leader's) can't dictate what I believe.

That would be a strange position for a church member to take in the LDS church.

[_The CCC]

Is the church true? There is plenty of evidence against it. But even if it was, it wouldn't have any relevance to what I believe about God. Why do I have to trust them (the leaders)? I'm fine with people (leaders) believing anything they want, but their beliefs (leader's) can't dictate what I believe.

That would be a strange position for a church member to take in the LDS church.[/quote]

I believe the Church is true. If I didn't I'd be of another religion or none at all. Church leaders can't dictate what I believe. I either accept it or not. by the way The only person I've ever agreed with all the time is myself, and I'm entitled to change my mind.

SEE Articles of Faith # 11: We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

[_spotlight]

I've never seen that article of faith used to justify disagreeing with leaders of the church by anyone within the church until your post. I've never witnessed a bishop go against the direction from his stake president or a stake president go against the direction of the brethren or the brethren go against the direction of the prophet. But I'm sure it happens all the time and the 11th article of faith is presented when the church court is held and all charges are dropped.

[_The CCC]

I've never seen that article of faith used to justify disagreeing with leaders of the church by anyone within the church until your post. I've never witnessed a bishop go against the direction from his stake president or a stake president go against the direction of the brethren or the brethren go against the direction of the prophet. But I'm sure it happens all the time and the 11th article of faith is presented when the church court is held and all charges are dropped.

I didn't say it was justified, but we do allow it. Further it depends on what the disagreement is, and if it publicly calls into question the Truth Claims of the Church. There has been a very few such incidences among the leadership. IE; If a leader(member) were to publicly claim President Thomas was a fallen prophet. That leader(member) would face Church discipline.

[_spotlight]

If a leader(member) were to publicly claim President Thomas was a fallen prophet. That leader(member) would face Church discipline.

Well I guess be grateful then that you don't live in the days of Joseph Smith and weren't called upon to give him your wife.

[_Themis]

I've never been to China. How do I know China exists? I have faith that the people who have been there are telling me the truth.

Precisely my point. Your faith is not in God but man.

[_Themis]

I've never been to China. How do I know China exists? I have faith that the people who have been there are telling me the truth.

This is not a fair comparison. It's more like a group of people that say the earth is hollow and they've been there but you can't go and you have to trust them. You are expected to believe them even when data says a hollow earth is not possible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow_Earth

I think you will find Mormons will not pray about this one but look at the available facts to decide if it has merit.

[_Themis]

Trust in God, but keep your hands on steering wheel.

You already admitted you cannot trust in God when you reiterated my point. You are trusting in certain men and what they claim.

[_Maksutov]

Trust in God, but keep your hands on steering wheel.

You already admitted you cannot trust in God when you reiterated my point. You are trusting in certain men and what they claim.

The oldest fragments of the Bible in existence were written by human hand. No reason to think that the contents didn't have human origin as well. The same is true of those who claim to channel the will, word, mind, whatever, of God. It's still coming from a human brain through human lips or pen, no matter what the writer says about themselves.