94,044,000 Americans Not in the Labor Force

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_ajax18
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Re: 94,044,000 Americans Not in the Labor Force

Post by _ajax18 »

Ajax, should those millions of stay-at-home moms start dropping their kiddos off with strangers in day care centers, so that they can go get a job and reduce that 'not in the labor force' figure?


Does it harm small children for the mother to work and put the children in daycare?

How about retirees? Is it time to put them all back to work, too?


If they're able to work, they should be working. If you're calling social security retirement, they're basically robbing from their children and grandchildren.
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
_Kevin Graham
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Re: 94,044,000 Americans Not in the Labor Force

Post by _Kevin Graham »

If they're able to work, they should be working. If you're calling social security retirement, they're basically robbing from their children and grandchildren.


Again, it is like you just make crap up as you go. These are stupid Right Wing myths designed to take focus off of the real cause of our debt: stupid tax cuts for the wealthy and an outrageous appetite for military spending.
_Kevin Graham
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Re: 94,044,000 Americans Not in the Labor Force

Post by _Kevin Graham »

You can't print money out of a debt crisis without economic consequence.


This "printing money" business is mostly myth and I'm surprised to see you buy into it.

1) The government “prints money”.

The government really doesn’t “print money” in any meaningful sense. Most of the money in our monetary system exists because banks created it through the loan creation process. The only money the government really creates is due to the process of notes and coin creation. These forms of money, however, exist to facilitate the use of bank accounts. That is, they’re not issued directly to consumers, but rather are distributed through the banking system as bank customers need these forms of money. If the government “prints” anything you could say they print Treasury Bonds, which are securities, not money. The entire concept of the government “printing money” is generally a misportrayal by the mainstream media...

3) The US government is running out of money and must pay back the national debt.

There seems to be this strange belief that a nation with a printing press whose debt is denominated in the currency it can print, can become insolvent. There are many people who complain about the government “printing money” while also worrying about government solvency. It’s a very strange contradiction. Of course, the US government could theoretically print up as much money as it wanted. As I described in myth number 1, that’s not technically how the system is presently designed (because banks create most of the money), but that doesn’t mean the government is at risk of “running out of money”. As I’ve described before, the US government is a contingent currency issuer and could always create the money needed to fund its own operations. Now, that doesn’t mean that this won’t contribute to high inflation or currency debasement, but solvency (not having access to money) is not the same thing as inflation (issuing too much money).



If Greece had the capacity to peg its own currency, it would still be up a creek.


Well they did have that capacity, before they joined the EU. Had they not done so, their predicament would have been more manageable since they would have had control over their own currency. The ECB is imposing ridiculous austerity measures in return for their bailout, making it difficult for their economy to recover:

If Greece didn't use the euro, it could have boosted its economy by printing more of its currency, the drachma. This would have lowered the value of the drachma in international markets, making Greek exports more competitive. It would also lower domestic interest rates, encouraging domestic investment and making it easier for Greek debtors to service their debts.

But Greece shares its monetary policy with the rest of Europe. And the German-dominated European Central Bank has given Europe a monetary policy that's about right for Germany, but so tight that it has thrust Greece into a depression.

So Greece is squeezed between a crushing debt burden — 177 percent of GDP, about twice the level in the United States — and a deep depression that makes it difficult to raise the money it needs to make its debt payments. Any tax hikes or spending cuts enacted to help pay back the debt would just worsen the depression.


"Too high" isn't something that has a hard number attached to it because it exists on a gradient and is dependent on other variables. That said, 100% of annual GDP is generally considered a benchmark for there being a problem. Crisis numbers are 1.5 to 2 times that usually. But it really depends on a complex array of factors. Some nations can have a higher ratio than others and still retain good credit. We're currently at 104%.


So we can expect to keep hearing about the apocalyptic effects of rising debt no matter how long we go without seeing any of the predicted effects come about. If nearly $20 trillion isn't enough to even cause a blip on the radar I don't see how $50 trillion is going to be so devastating. We were supposed to get hyperinflation at $15 trillion, and we're barely seeing any inflation at all $5 trillion past that mark.
_Kevin Graham
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Re: 94,044,000 Americans Not in the Labor Force

Post by _Kevin Graham »

Entitlements are so beyond reform, they're not even included as discretionary spending.


Why the hell should it be discretionary? The reason Social Security and Medicare are called entitlements is because people are entitled to them. They've been paying for them all their lives through payroll taxes so why the hell should Congress get to debate every year on whether or not they actually receive those benefits?

At year end 2014 the Social Security trust fund had $2.7 trillion in asset reserves. Where do you think that $2.7 trillion came from and where do you think it should be spent?
_canpakes
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Re: 94,044,000 Americans Not in the Labor Force

Post by _canpakes »

ajax18 wrote:
Ajax, should those millions of stay-at-home moms start dropping their kiddos off with strangers in day care centers, so that they can go get a job and reduce that 'not in the labor force' figure?

Does it harm small children for the mother to work and put the children in daycare?

It might harm them; it might not. But that's a separate question.

Let's put this another way... What would be gained, to society and with regard to the labor participation rate, to have the millions of mothers who are stay-at-home moms and who do not draw state or welfare benefits, to suddenly start working again?
Last edited by Guest on Sun May 08, 2016 4:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
_EAllusion
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Re: 94,044,000 Americans Not in the Labor Force

Post by _EAllusion »

Kevin Graham wrote:
This "printing money" business is mostly myth and I'm surprised to see you buy into it.


"Printing money" is a common expression meant to refer to measures central banks can take to reduce increase monetary supply or reduce the value of currency. It's called "printing money" because tradtionally one of the key tools those banks had to pursue loose monetary policy was to increase the physical supply of currency in circulation. Modern central banks no longer need to actually print money, but they increase supply all the same. There are a lot of dollars on ledgers that don't have bills attached to them. All Greece would be able to do if they controlled their own currency is to adopt a loose monetary policy in order to ease their ability to pay back bonds (i.e. loans). Adopting a very loose monetary policy to dig out of severe government debt will harm national credit, lead to an interest rate/inflation cycle, and ultimately lead to a financial crisis. I'm sort of fascinated why you think countries don't just spend whatever based on your total confidence that no amount of debt is a problem.

Greece can still opt out of the Euro-zone. They've debated it endlessly. This is not a pancea. It comes with its own severe consequences. They've been between a rock and a hardplace on account of their debt load.

If nearly $20 trillion isn't enough to even cause a blip on the radar I don't see how $50 trillion is going to be so devastating. We were supposed to get hyperinflation at $15 trillion, and we're barely seeing any inflation at all $5 trillion past that mark.
Yes, if the US is Ok in a global economy with a GDP to debt ratio of about 1:1, then clearly it's no problem for it to be 2.5:1. Hell, let's make it 7:1. After all, if one level of debt is no problem, then no levels of debt are a problem.
_honorentheos
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Re: 94,044,000 Americans Not in the Labor Force

Post by _honorentheos »

Kevin Graham wrote:
If they're able to work, they should be working. If you're calling social security retirement, they're basically robbing from their children and grandchildren.


Again, it is like you just make s*** up as you go. These are stupid Right Wing myths designed to take focus off of the real cause of our debt: stupid tax cuts for the wealthy and an outrageous appetite for military spending.

Ajax's comments would be funny given what they imply (the worker bees have one role to play in society, and that's increased productivity. For god and country of course) if not for how dispersed and damaging the view has become among those who conversely gnash their teeth and froth at the mouth over how poorly their productivity converts to wealth. Of course, that's the fault of all the people sucking at the tit of the few hard working 'mericans making it so welfare moms, illegals and other moochers can live in the lap of luxury. It's so funny one could cry.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
_canpakes
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Re: 94,044,000 Americans Not in the Labor Force

Post by _canpakes »

honorentheos wrote:Ajax's comments would be funny given what they imply (the worker bees have one role to play in society, and that's increased productivity. For god and country of course) if not for how dispersed and damaging the view has become among those who conversely gnash their teeth and froth at the mouth over how poorly their productivity converts to wealth. Of course, that's the fault of all the people sucking at the tit of the few hard working 'mericans making it so welfare moms, illegals and other moochers can live in the lap of luxury. It's so funny one could cry.


I'm wondering if Ajax can tell us where the 90 million new jobs are going to be coming from, or what the effect on wages will be from forcing every American to work regardless of their age or particular situation.

Next month, he'll post this figure again, and still will have no idea what it really means or what he wants with regard to it anyway.
_EAllusion
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Re: 94,044,000 Americans Not in the Labor Force

Post by _EAllusion »

I think think there was just confusion about what it means to print money in this thread, but I'd be remiss if I didn't point out the link you provided is, uh, not good. That you cite it as an authority on what is a "myth" is not in any way earned.
_honorentheos
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Re: 94,044,000 Americans Not in the Labor Force

Post by _honorentheos »

canpakes wrote:
honorentheos wrote:Ajax's comments would be funny given what they imply (the worker bees have one role to play in society, and that's increased productivity. For god and country of course) if not for how dispersed and damaging the view has become among those who conversely gnash their teeth and froth at the mouth over how poorly their productivity converts to wealth. Of course, that's the fault of all the people sucking at the tit of the few hard working 'mericans making it so welfare moms, illegals and other moochers can live in the lap of luxury. It's so funny one could cry.


I'm wondering if Ajax can tell us where the 90 million new jobs are going to be coming from, or what the effect on wages will be from forcing every American to work regardless of their age or particular situation.

Next month, he'll post this figure again, and still will have no idea what it really means or what he wants with regard to it anyway.

I'm pretty sure it's doing the job he wants it to do. Which is support his view that there are 90m+ people in this country living off his tax dollars. He doesn't care about anything other than it's a big number and clearly they don't work yet are still alive somehow. So it must be they are moochers. And since he's such a diligent productive worker bee but can't seem to gain the wealth promised for such devotion to the motherland, well, illegals.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
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