Who's More Likely to Beat Donald Trump ????? Hillary or Bernie?

[_Some Schmo]

Man, I would love it if Bernie got the nod at the convention. Probably won't happen, though. On the other hand you have to admit 4 years of a Drumpf presidency would offer some awesome soundbites and watching John Oliver would be mandatory because he'd put the pussy on the chainwax.

- Doc

It would be quite a windfall for comedians everywhere.

Frankly, I don't see Trump as seriously worse than Hillary (but I admit that's because I have a decent idea what Hillary will be like - Drumpf is a complete unknown). For as much as you can trust what's coming out of their mouths right now, all we can really go on is our experience with Hillary as a Senator/SoS.

[_Some Schmo]

Perhaps that explains the work ethic I see demonstrated by millennials.

It's got to be hard carrying the whole world on your shoulders, huh ajax? Bet you regret not going with atlas18 for your screen name, huh?

[_EAllusion]

Your problem is that you assume all things are equal. All candidates are equally bad because they are. The fact that the attacks on Bernie have been limited to a few minor issues like past support for the gun lobby, that's just because the Right hasn't dug up any juicy stuff yet. Surely we're going to find a long record of atrocious things like Clinton, right EA?

All candidates are equal. Unless you're Gary Johnson I suppose.

The right wing media is attacking Clinton on largely fanciful grounds that has very little to do with the progressive complaint list you posted. I say this as a person who despises Clinton. My point is that the right doesn't need to have issues you personally consider legitimate to form its negative campaign or for that negative campaign to be relatively effective. The fact is that the right wing media has been attacking Clinton rather hard for a rather long time and this is not true of Sanders. Your counterpoint is that Sanders is too squeaky clean to be attacked. This fundamentally misunderstands how that negative campaigning operates even if that were true. This very well may affect head to head polling numbers at this stage of the election. That would be in keeping with historical trends.

[_honorentheos]

Your problem is that you assume all things are equal. All candidates are equally bad because they are. The fact that the attacks on Bernie have been limited to a few minor issues like past support for the gun lobby, that's just because the Right hasn't dug up any juicy stuff yet. Surely we're going to find a long record of atrocious things like Clinton, right EA?

All candidates are equal. Unless you're Gary Johnson I suppose.

Or, Hillary has needed Bernie's supporters. The gun issue had the effect of pushing him to more of a centrist-Democrat position during the campaign, actually. Just as he's influenced Hillary's position to move left. The general election will be interesting this go around, since it's traditionally when candidates move to the middle. That might not happen this time, though. I'm curious, really.

Anyone who thinks a guy who went to the Soviet Union and Cuba during the cold war and advocated for how great they were is going to have an easy time in a general campaign has drank the kool aid. That's not to dismiss him, as I think he'd still win as well. But he'd have a much harder time than his supporters here seem to think.

[_honorentheos]

Frankly, I don't see Trump as seriously worse than Hillary (but I admit that's because I have a decent idea what Hillary will be like - Drumpf is a complete unknown). For as much as you can trust what's coming out of their mouths right now, all we can really go on is our experience with Hillary as a Senator/SoS.

Maybe you missed his recent comments on fiscal policy. Spoiler - Germany 1920's anyone?

http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/09/politics/donald-trump-national-debt-strategy/

Hillary and Trump are the same...

[_Some Schmo]

Hillary and Trump are the same...

Who said that?

[_EAllusion]

Anyone who thinks a guy who went to the Soviet Union and Cuba during the cold war and advocated for how great they were is going to have an easy time in a general campaign has drank the kool aid. That's not to dismiss him, as I think he'd still win as well. But he'd have a much harder time than his supporters here seem to think.

We're not going to get the chance, but I am very curious about how this would've played out. Almost every single presidential election, the Republicans make a red-scare threat a central part of their negative campaign. Bill Clinton is the only real exception in the modern political era. Democrats, for their part, tend to portray the Republican candidates as either dangerously stupid or dangerously crazy and will go to that template over and over.

Bernie Sanders is the very first example where you can run a red-scare campaign with some real teeth. But Republicans have been doing this for so long, that I'm not sure if it would have an extra-special impact on a real-deal socialist who was uncomfortably friendly to communist nations during the cold war. After all, doesn't the average Fox News viewer think Barack Obama, of all people, is a crypto-Marxist? If they're used to that, would they have anywhere to go from there? Are their "Omg! Marxist!" settings already turned up to 11? To what extent has crying communist (or socialist) dulled the public to caring about it?

I don't know. I'm curious how that would play out.

[_Kevin Graham]

Anyone who thinks a guy who went to the Soviet Union and Cuba during the cold war and advocated for how great they were is going to have an easy time in a general campaign has drank the kool aid. That's not to dismiss him, as I think he'd still win as well. But he'd have a much harder time than his supporters here seem to think.

Not that much harder. I mean their #1 issue is his "Socialism" and that was already played out against Obama and didn't work. And this came from folks who genuinely hated Socialism whereas Trump will be in no position whatsoever to criticize Sanders for promoting socialistic ideas. After all, he admires Canada's health care system, he also supports the Buffeft rule in which wealthier folks should pay more taxes, and he doesn't think wealthy people should get social security.

Then you have the fact that numerous prominent Republican figures have come out and praised Sanders for being genuine and honest. Only 4% of Republicans and 35% of Independents think Hillary is honest and trustworthy, compared to 37% (R) and 56% (I) for Sanders. Bernie also has a 5 point lead among Democrats as well.

So if Trump wants to flip the table and suddenly go after Sanders' character, well, good luck with that. To this day the only thing I've seen against Sanders that could remotely be construed as a knock against his character is his presumed intentions to "steal" the election by persuading superdelegates to change their minds "no matter what."

[_moksha]

I'm not sure Trump can be stopped. He is like a freight train careening down a steep hill and that measly ski jump posed by the general election will only send Trump to even greater heights.

[_Kevin Graham]

The best chance for Trump would be for him to come out and admit that his antics the past year were just strategy and part of a show to get the nomination and to assure saner minds in America that he can be presidential and a serious person. He would then need to appeal to more leftists and independents by talking about the points where he and Sanders agree. Not make it nearly as scary to vote for him as it sounds now.