Science is a tool that can be abused!

[_Franktalk]

Spotlight,

I am pretty sure you feel that men who enter into positions of leadership in religion are really in search of power and status. But somehow men who enter into positions of leadership in science are not men. Instead they are sprinkled with magic pixie dust and they become pure as driven snow. I am sorry Spotlight but your position is delusional.

[_spotlight]

Interesting, I have never seen spotlight displaying anger in your exchanges, yet you have mentioned it more than once and are the source of images of "gas chambers" or what not references to violence. It seems that you have a lot of anger and resentment yourself, Frank, especially towards those who are more educated than you. It's a very unfortunate attitude, one guaranteed to keep you at the low level of intellectual functioning that you're so proud of.

When I was at the stage of performing mental gymnastics to justify the Mormon faith I realized at some point that my version of the faith was becoming quite unique to myself. So much so, that I was likely the only individual that held my particular viewpoint. That was the moment that reality sunk in.

Franktalk OTOH never had that realization, that if he is the only person in the world who has a handle on the truth that he is deluding himself.

Did you notice how overly defensive he became on this point?

What I found was that once the mental barricade was down I could understand the data that contradicted my faith that previously my mind literally refused to comprehend. That is a large part of what I think is going on with Franktalk. We can see how inconsistent his logic is but he is blind to it.

[_spotlight]

Spotlight,

I am pretty sure you feel that men who enter into positions of leadership in religion are really in search of power and status. But somehow men who enter into positions of leadership in science are not men. Instead they are sprinkled with magic pixie dust and they become pure as driven snow. I am sorry Spotlight but your position is delusional.

You are literally making this up as you go Frank. Men do not "enter into positions of leadership" in science, they simply do science, and their work gets added to the rest of humanities accumulated knowledge. No one is bound to follow their work. In fact if they suspect it is in error they will want the recognition that comes from correcting a flawed position. There is no need for perfection when you have many reworking the knowledge base looking for errors. It works quite well to remove errors and self corrects when mistakes are made.

Inward journeys bring nothing to the table. They are delusional by definition as they relate to nothing real.

You would not take my challenge before, so here it is again. If your path is superior then separate yourself from society and refuse the trappings of science altogether that you presently enjoy and allow yourself only those which you can invent with your own genius and from the knowledge gained by your inward journey. Need GPS? Fine let your inward journey tell you how to make it work. Let's see how far you get Frank.

[_The CCC]

Men/women of science are just as subject to all the faults, foibles, mistakes, sins that are common to men/women without science. But it highly unlikely that we are all subject to the same faults, foibles, mistakes, and sins. Therein lies the hope for progress.

[_spotlight]

Men/women of science are just as subject to all the faults, foibles, mistakes, sins that are common to men/women without science. But it highly unlikely that we are all subject to the same faults, foibles, mistakes, and sins. Therein lies the hope for progress.

This is an excellent comment CCC.

[_Franktalk]

Men/women of science are just as subject to all the faults, foibles, mistakes, sins that are common to men/women without science. But it highly unlikely that we are all subject to the same faults, foibles, mistakes, and sins. Therein lies the hope for progress.

Whether a man devotes himself to science or religion or government he will not lose his human failings. Most people reading this would agree but I wish to write it differently to make a point.

I have met many people who were at one time lost in the paradigm of religion. They bought into the false doctrine of heaven and hell, angels and the devil. They bought into the idea that we are judged by God and somehow belonging to a church would save our soul from damnation. They believed the idea that sacred text exist and every word was inspired by God. In this paradigm they embraced the notion of being saved as directed by men. Many of these people became disillusioned with religion at some point in their life and took up science thinking it is not a belief system. What they do not realize is they gave up one paradigm for another. Science indeed has some great facts and has made some nice devices to aid man. But much of science is not fact, it is theory based and is not solid. It is indeed very fluid and by definition must be so. But science is made of men, men who embrace the theory just as men embrace theology. A person who allowed religion to fool them will also allow science to engulf them in a paradigm of science. They will follow the leaders just as they followed the leaders in religion. They will marvel at the institutions of science just as they marveled at the institutions of religion. Just as they embraced religion as fact they will embrace theory as fact. I have seen this a hundred times and the more adamant they are in the defense of science the more lost they are in the paradigm. There is no way of talking them out. Just as there is no way of talking a religious person out of their paradigm.

In my belief system it does not matter if someone is lost in a paradigm. We are here for the experience. Having the world's population in all of these paradigms sure makes this place interesting.

[_spotlight]

Whether a man devotes himself to science or religion or government he will not lose his human failings. Most people reading this would agree but I wish to write it differently to make a point.

I have met many people who were at one time lost in the paradigm of religion. They bought into the false doctrine of heaven and hell, angels and the devil. They bought into the idea that we are judged by God and somehow belonging to a church would save our soul from damnation. They believed the idea that sacred text exist and every word was inspired by God. In this paradigm they embraced the notion of being saved as directed by men. Many of these people became disillusioned with religion at some point in their life and took up science thinking it is not a belief system. What they do not realize is they gave up one paradigm for another. Science indeed has some great facts and has made some nice devices to aid man. But much of science is not fact, it is theory based and is not solid. It is indeed very fluid and by definition must be so. But science is made of men, men who embrace the theory just as men embrace theology. A person who allowed religion to fool them will also allow science to engulf them in a paradigm of science. They will follow the leaders just as they followed the leaders in religion. They will marvel at the institutions of science just as they marveled at the institutions of religion. Just as they embraced religion as fact they will embrace theory as fact. I have seen this a hundred times and the more adamant they are in the defense of science the more lost they are in the paradigm. There is no way of talking them out. Just as there is no way of talking a religious person out of their paradigm.

In my belief system it does not matter if someone is lost in a paradigm. We are here for the experience. Having the world's population in all of these paradigms sure makes this place interesting.

Ironically Frank is lost in the paradigm of having no paradigms.

[_Franktalk]

Ironically Frank is lost in the paradigm of having no paradigms.

I do not think it is possible to live in the flesh and not be influenced by what goes on around us. I fully admit that I am just as influenced as anybody else. The main difference between me and you is I know my weaknesses and admit to them. I do try and not let them get out of hand. But most admit to nothing preferring to think of themselves as pure.

[_spotlight]

Ironically Frank is lost in the paradigm of having no paradigms.

I do not think it is possible to live in the flesh and not be influenced by what goes on around us. I fully admit that I am just as influenced as anybody else. The main difference between me and you is I know my weaknesses and admit to them. I do try and not let them get out of hand. But most admit to nothing preferring to think of themselves as pure.

The advantage of science is it can be demonstrated regardless of the purity of the experimenter. A murderer and a saint will get the same result when they perform Millikan's experiment.

[_Franktalk]

The advantage of science is it can be demonstrated regardless of the purity of the experimenter. A murderer and a saint will get the same result when they perform Millikan's experiment.

That's the difference between you and me. I focus on the raw data and you focus on the people. I think that comes from a secret desire to be famous in the field. I think that you imagine people in the future performing an experiment with your name on it.