The consequences of living a non-valiant life in pre-existen

[_Mittens]

What Mormons teach about the birth of a handicapped Child and minorities especially in third world countries due to not being valiant in mythical pre-existence .


"This privilege of obtaining a mortal body on this earth is seemingly so priceless that those in the spirit world, even though unfaithful or not valient, were undoubtedly permitted to take mortal bodies although under penalty of racial or physical or nationalistic limitations...." (Decisions for Successful Living pp 164-165) TLDP: 497- Harold B. Lee

“There is no truth more plainly taught in the Gospel than that our condition in the next world will depend upon the kind of lives we live here. …Is it not just as reasonable to suppose that the conditions in which we now live have been determined by the kind of lives we lived in the pre-existent world of spirits? That the apostles understood this principle is indicated by their question to the Master when the man who was blind from his birth was healed of his blindness, ‘Master, who did sin, this man or his parents that he was born blind?’ (John 9:2.) Now perhaps you will have a partial answer to some of your questions as to why, if God is a just Father, that some of his children are born of an enlightened race and in a time when the Gospel is upon the earth, while others are born of a heathen parentage in a benighted, backward country; and still others are born to parents who have the mark of a black skin with which the seed of Cain were cursed and whose descendants were to be denied the rights of the priesthood of God”
(Harold B. Lee, Decisions for Successful Living, pp. 164-165).

Notice that Mormons still teach this on official LDS website on link below since John 9:2 is still used like Harold B Lee cited in his book

https://www.LDS.org/scriptures/tg/man-a ... f?lang=eng

Even before the migration to Mexico had begun, Apostle Brigham Young, Jr. had warned members of the Church living in Arizona ‘that the blood of Cain was more predominant in these Mexicans than that of Israel.’ For this reason he ‘condemned the mixing’ of Mormons with ‘outsiders.’”

- B. Carmon Hardy, “Cultural ‘Encystment’ as a Cause of the Exodus from Mexico in 1912,” Pacific Historical Review, v. 34, 1965, p. 447


"You may inquire of the intelligent of the world whether they can tell why the aborigines of this country are dark, loathsome, ignorant, and sunken into the depths of degradation ...When the Lord has a people, he makes covenants with them and gives unto them promises: then, if they transgress his law, change his ordinances, and break his covenants he has made with them, he will put a mark upon them, as in the case of the Lamanites and other portions of the house of Israel; but by-and-by they will become a white and delightsome people" (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 7:336).

"The day of the Lamanites in nigh. For years they have been growing delightsome. . . The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation. . .There was the doctor in a Utah city who for two years had had an Indian boy in his home who stated that he was some shades lighter than the younger brother just coming into the program from the reservation. These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness. Spencer W. Kimball; The Improvemant, Era, Dec. 1960, p. 923)

"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind....Cain slew his brother. Can might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin." (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, page 290).

"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so." (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Volume 10, page 110.)

"Not only was Cain called upon to suffer, but because of his wickedness he became the father of an inferior race." (Tenth LDS President, Joseph Fielding Smith The Way to Perfection, p.101.)

"Let us consider the great mercy of God for a moment. a Chinese, born in China with a dark skin, and with all the handicaps of that race seems to have little opportunity. but think of the mercy of god to Chinese people who are willing to accept the gospel. In spite of whatever they might have done in the pre-existence to justify being born over there as Chinamen, if they now, in this life, accept the gospel and live it the rest of their lives they can have the Priesthood, go to the temple and receive endowments and sealings, and that means they can have exaltation. Isn't the mercy of God marvelous?

Think of the Negro, cursed as to the priesthood... This Negro, who in the pre-existence lived the type of life which justified the Lord in sending him to the earth in the lineage of Cain with a black skin, and possibly being born in darkest Africa--if that Negro is willing when he hears the gospel to accept it, he may have many of the blessings of the gospel. In spite of all he did in the pre-existent life, the Lord is willing, if the Negro accepts the gospel with real, sincerer faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessing of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost. If that Negro is faithful all his days, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get celestial glory.

(Race Problems--As They Affect The Church, An address by Mark E. Petersen at the Convention of Teachers of Religion on the College level; Brigham Young University, Provo, Utah, August 27, 1954.)

http://i.imgur.com/uy00j4z.jpg


Is there reason then why the type of birth we receive in this life is not a reflection of our worthiness or lack of it in the pre‑existent life? We must accept the justice of God. He is fair to all. With that in mind, we can account in no other way for the birth of some of the children of God in darkest Africa, or in flood‑ridden China, or among the starving hordes of India, while some of the rest of us are born in the United States? We cannot escape the conclusion that because of performance in our pre‑existence some of us are born as Chinese, some as Japanese, some as Indians, some as Negroes, some as Americans, some as Latter‑day Saints. There are rewards and punishments, fully in harmony with His established policy in dealing with sinners and saints, rewarding all according to their deeds.

Mark E. Petersen, Race Problems as they Affect the Church

[_The CCC]

SEE http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/race-church

[_SteelHead]

See the tire tracks on Bro. Peterson's back? He is a little to the left, under the bus, of Brigham Young. Bro. Brigham has both sets of rear tires firmly planted on him.

[_Amore]

Things are better than before, as far as racial prejudice in the church, but no where near as unconditionally loving as Christ. Although the church (leaders, curriculum etc.) would like to pretend that there is no longer prejudice in the church, it is prevalent in doctrine, teachings, believers, segregation (different language/cultural wards) and religious images.

The images of a white Jesus reflect some of the prejudice of needing Jesus to be white, not middle eastern as he was.
What a typical Jewish/Israeli man during Jesus's time may have looked like according to Forensic Anthropologists:

[_huckelberry]

Mittens, shall we compare how many black Americans were publicly murdered,lynched, by mobs of protestants and how many were murdered, lynched, by Mormons?

If Mormons have some bad scriptures why is it that the rest of Protestant Christianity has some many people behaving like monsters? Lynchings were not done by a few criminals but by communities of righteous white people well versed in what we are supposed to believe is the real Christianity.

Look at the history.

HOWL.

The comment level you provide yourself is so small it is hard to tell what you are intending to discuss or communicate. Have you not noticed that the people posting here are quite familiar with this sort of material?

There are pictures of crowds of smug people standing around a hanging black man who has been burnt to death.

Jesus Christ, burnt to death.

Is it that the white race is incapable of moral understanding? Are they possessed of the devil? What in this world is going on?

[_Franktalk]

This whole valiant life stuff is nonsense.

Mat 12:46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
Mat 12:47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
Mat 12:48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
Mat 12:49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
Mat 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

It seems Christ gave no consideration to anything besides current behavior.

Brigham Young was an idiot. He did not care to learn what Christ taught.

[_Maksutov]

This whole valiant life stuff is nonsense.

Mat 12:46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
Mat 12:47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
Mat 12:48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
Mat 12:49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
Mat 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

It seems Christ gave no consideration to anything besides current behavior.

Brigham Young was an idiot. He did not care to learn what Christ taught.

I don't see what this has to do with the pre-existence. This is just Jesus saying that he was such a cultist that he was willing to abandon his family for his visions. Kind of like David Koresh, Joseph Smith, David Berg, L. Ron Hubbard, he didn't care how devastated families were by what he taught. Why people find this admirable is beyond me, I think it's kind of disgusting.

[_deacon blues]

I think this curious LDS doctrine has been de-emphasized since I was growing up in the 60's and 70's. It could have some interesting ramifications in the current discussions about why some people are gay, but I doubt LDS leaders will refer to it because it opens a big can of worms. Can you imagine a Sunday School conversation starting with "were people born gay because of something they did in the pre-existence?"

[_huckelberry]

This whole valiant life stuff is nonsense.

Mat 12:46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
Mat 12:47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
Mat 12:48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
Mat 12:49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
Mat 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

It seems Christ gave no consideration to anything besides current behavior.

Brigham Young was an idiot. He did not care to learn what Christ taught.

I don't see what this has to do with the pre-existence. This is just Jesus saying that he was such a cultist that he was willing to abandon his family for his visions. Kind of like David Koresh, Joseph Smith, David Berg, L. Ron Hubbard, he didn't care how devastated families were by what he taught. Why people find this admirable is beyond me, I think it's kind of disgusting.

Muksutov,
I think whether it is disgusting or a very positive source of hope depends entirely upon what one thinks the will of God means in the passage. There certainly are views of that held by some people which render the passage into something disgusting.

Myself , I read the passage as a license from God to ignore, reject, leave behind, disestablish, all of those authorities who abuse human rights.

[_Maksutov]

I don't see what this has to do with the pre-existence. This is just Jesus saying that he was such a cultist that he was willing to abandon his family for his visions. Kind of like David Koresh, Joseph Smith, David Berg, L. Ron Hubbard, he didn't care how devastated families were by what he taught. Why people find this admirable is beyond me, I think it's kind of disgusting.

Muksutov,
I think whether it is disgusting or a very positive source of hope depends entirely upon what one thinks the will of God means in the passage. There certainly are views of that held by some people which render the passage into something disgusting.

Myself , I read the passage as a license from God to ignore, reject, leave behind, disestablish, all of those authorities who abuse human rights.

I guess that works for you. There are things that I like about Jesus, but this isn't one of them. I can understand it from the point of view of someone putting together an army or a revolution but is that who he was? So much doesn't add up for me. I'm not prepared to recast everything uttered by Jesus into generalities and symbols. I think a lot of it speaks for itself.