honorentheos wrote:But what if I had instead found a constructive perspective at one of the critical times of crisis? Would it have mattered? I don't know. I think the evidence is probably too compelling to overlook and the moral issues involved with a deeper look at Joseph and Brigham's time as leaders would not have impacted me less. I just wondered out loud if things would have gone differently had I gone down a Nibley/Givens route of study early on or if it the results would still have been the same. I can't see myself ignoring polygamy/MMM/the first vision issues/the non-historical Book of Mormon...and I certainly would not have been on board with the Church's postion on marriage equality. But that brings me back to the point where I wonder if one's position towards the LDS Church becomes about one's moral worldview once one no longer accepts it is divinely sanctioned? I've come to suspect this is much more important when it comes to determining if a person will stay or go.
My guess is that all of the things you point to would have led you to the same conclusion, sooner or later. I very much started down the Nibley road. I read Since Cumorah before my mission, and read a number of his books on my mission. I even bought a first edition of Abraham in Egypt from an LDS bookstore next to our mission office. I went to BYU to take courses from Nibley, and I did take courses from him, as well as go to see him speak and have a few conversations with him during office hours.
The things is: I don't know if the LDS Church would be salvageable (for me) even if I still bought into Nibley. Some of the very things Nibley criticized are so much worse than when I heard him speak out against them--how does a person hang on in the face of all of the problems? Clearly, some people can. But I am amazed that people who thought Nibley's criticisms were on target can hang on.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
Symmachus wrote:He also may have been an alien lizard temporarily in humanoid form. From time immemorial these lizard people have been well known in the near east. They are the Anunnaki from the Enūma Eliš, closely associated with wisdom and knowledge, as we learn from Genesis and from the Book of Moses. They come from the constellation Draco. The schoolmen have come increasingly to recognize the importance of lizard-people in ancient and in modern societies, especially as most of the powerbrokers in our economic and political class are alien lizards.
I can't believe you brought up the Anunnaki! Hilarious. I actually had a student introduce Sitchin's stuff to me a couple of years ago. Talk about bonkers!
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
kairos wrote:It seems fitting perhaps at this point to thank those who replied as well as those who read the many responses on this thread. Seething or just rumbling in many minds was a desire to say something about the Nibster, for good or ill. And much was written! I know that I am much more informed on the Nibman than prior to this thread.
I leave you with what I feel captures input here on his life and work, if you can call it that, and might be etched on his tombstone- he does have a tomb does he not?
"Here lies Hugh Nibley, liar to some, hack to others, influential Mormon social commentator, untrustworthy Mormon scholar to many, something in between to still others, and child abuser to more than one."*
*Mormon Discussions Board, "Nibley- Footnote faker or not?", June, 2016.
Many of you could probably write that footnote in German or Egyptian to keep FAIR in the dark!
Don't forget eccentric, crackpot, fraud, and one who liked to run around hiking trails in his garment tops, and lived and worked in a filthy unorganized mess.
Don't take life so seriously in that " sooner or later we are just old men in funny clothes" "Tom 'T-Bone' Wolk"
Markk wrote:Don't forget eccentric, crackpot, fraud, and one who liked to run around hiking trails in his garment tops, and lived and worked in a filthy unorganized mess.
No need to keep piling it on, Markk. We are fully convinced that you are unhinged about Nibley.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
Markk wrote:Don't forget eccentric, crackpot, fraud, and one who liked to run around hiking trails in his garment tops, and lived and worked in a filthy unorganized mess.
No need to keep piling it on, Markk. We are fully convinced that you are unhinged about Nibley.
Fully. And I'm not even going to ask how you know he liked to run around hiking trails in his garment tops, and how you know what his private living situation looked like.
Markk wrote:Don't forget eccentric, crackpot, fraud, and one who liked to run around hiking trails in his garment tops, and lived and worked in a filthy unorganized mess.
No need to keep piling it on, Markk. We are fully convinced that you are unhinged about Nibley.
It's strange, I agree. And I speak as someone who is hardly a fan of Nibley's, as anyone can see from my posts in this thread.
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Markk wrote:Don't forget eccentric, crackpot, fraud, and one who liked to run around hiking trails in his garment tops, and lived and worked in a filthy unorganized mess.
NIBLEEEEEEY!!!!
"As to any slivers of light or any particles of darkness of the past, we forget about them."
Markk wrote:Don't forget eccentric, crackpot, fraud, and one who liked to run around hiking trails in his garment tops, and lived and worked in a filthy unorganized mess.
NIBLEEEEEEY!!!!
Send Markk the check for the primal scream therapy.
Markk wrote:Don't forget eccentric, crackpot, fraud, and one who liked to run around hiking trails in his garment tops, and lived and worked in a filthy unorganized mess.
No need to keep piling it on, Markk. We are fully convinced that you are unhinged about Nibley.
Actually I was being lighthearted and quoting mostly what others said...of all I pasted, "eccentric" is what I said...But
you wrote about Skousen...so I guess it is okay for you to call folks names, but not me?
Racist conspiracy-theorist and all around kook.
Don't take life so seriously in that " sooner or later we are just old men in funny clothes" "Tom 'T-Bone' Wolk"