Vaccines and Therapeutics 2.0 & 3.0 Merge

[Jersey Girl]

They are letting him come in to visit her tomorrow on their wedding anniversary. We are not sure why. I think this means she's no longer infectious but remains medically compromised and that is why she is in ICU. Just speculating. Praying and hoping that when he visits, sees her condition, and possibly talks to nurses,that it makes a difference in his thinking. Her daughter is allowed to visit the next day.

These allowances are not much different than when my husband had surgery the end of March. During that time he could have two visitors each day. The two visitors could come as many times as they wanted to, but it had to be the same two people on any given day.

Her restrictions are one visitor for 30 minutes each day. Period. She's in a different hospital than my husband was and of course, she's an ICU patient where he was what I would call a typical post-op care floor patient.

Hoping there is some hope to be had in this situation. He doesn't seem well versed in the Covid process and doesn't know what questions to ask so if the roof were coming down, he wouldn't know it. Ignorance is bliss. My husband is coaching him.

[Gunnar]

They are lucky to have you and your husband as friends! I hope your friendship and influence will make enough of a positive difference for them.

[Jersey Girl]

They are lucky to have you and your husband as friends! I hope your friendship and influence will make enough of a positive difference for them.

That's very nice of you to say. I don't really know her much. Have been to the house I think twice for social stuff. Anyway, now we are finding out (because her husband finally took notes) that she is being treated for two collapsed lungs. I think that is one at a time? I don't know. I read that this is something that often happens to older folks mainly 70+ years old who have Covid and that the recovery period can be several weeks.

Sounds scary.

[Jersey Girl]

If you got vaccinated this is the bullet that you dodged.

The husband went to visit today. He was able to go in and out 3 times according to her need for sleep. She is weak. Losing weight. Cannot breathe without oxygen mask (forced pressure?). Blood in the fluid draining out of her lungs. They're now having to give her insulin. Her kidneys are involved. If a cascade of organ failure doesn't follow, I would be very happy for them but also very surprised.

For all we know, she may have had preexisting conditions that were never identified especially if she is someone who avoided doctors.

All we know is that this is BAD. Not that we are directly involved or are family members, but it feels like we're waiting for the other shoe to drop.

This is why we and most of you guys got vaccinated. To protect ourselves and others. This is what we all wanted to avoid and I only wish that this family had done all they could to prevent it.

[Moksha]

Mix-and-Match COVID Vaccines Trigger Potent Immune Response

Preliminary results from the trial of more than 600 people — announced in an online presentation on May 18 — are the first to show the benefits of combining different coronavirus vaccines.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... -response/

[Jersey Girl]

If you got vaccinated this is the bullet that you dodged.

The husband went to visit today. He was able to go in and out 3 times according to her need for sleep. She is weak. Losing weight. Cannot breathe without oxygen mask (forced pressure?). Blood in the fluid draining out of her lungs. They're now having to give her insulin. Her kidneys are involved. If a cascade of organ failure doesn't follow, I would be very happy for them but also very surprised.

For all we know, she may have had preexisting conditions that were never identified especially if she is someone who avoided doctors.

All we know is that this is BAD. Not that we are directly involved or are family members, but it feels like we're waiting for the other shoe to drop.

This is why we and most of you guys got vaccinated. To protect ourselves and others. This is what we all wanted to avoid and I only wish that this family had done all they could to prevent it.

She's dying.

[Jersey Girl]

If you got vaccinated this is the bullet that you dodged.

The husband went to visit today. He was able to go in and out 3 times according to her need for sleep. She is weak. Losing weight. Cannot breathe without oxygen mask (forced pressure?). Blood in the fluid draining out of her lungs. They're now having to give her insulin. Her kidneys are involved. If a cascade of organ failure doesn't follow, I would be very happy for them but also very surprised.

For all we know, she may have had preexisting conditions that were never identified especially if she is someone who avoided doctors.

All we know is that this is BAD. Not that we are directly involved or are family members, but it feels like we're waiting for the other shoe to drop.

This is why we and most of you guys got vaccinated. To protect ourselves and others. This is what we all wanted to avoid and I only wish that this family had done all they could to prevent it.

She's dying.

She passed earlier this evening.

[Chap]

This is a sad story.

However under current circumstances, none of us on this board (apart from Jersey Girl) has a human relation with this family close enough to demand emotional commitment to sympathising, supporting and helping in any practical way.

So I hope it is not too cold-hearted if I say that I hope Jersey Girl will eventually be able to tell us how the husband talks about his loss. Does he now see it as a mistake for her to have ignored vaccination, and to have travelled freely and interacted closely with many other unvaccinated people under pandemic circumstances? Or does he ascribe his wife's death to some other non virus-related cause? Or ... what?

I ask in the hope of understanding such people better (and hence learning how to persuade them to act more rationally for their own and for others' sakes), not because I want to mock or ridicule them.

[Moksha]

Has anyone else read this article? https://thebulletin.org/2021/05/the-ori ... -at-wuhan/

[Jersey Girl]

This is a sad story.

However under current circumstances, none of us on this board (apart from Jersey Girl) has a human relation with this family close enough to demand emotional commitment to sympathising, supporting and helping in any practical way.

So I hope it is not too cold-hearted if I say that I hope Jersey Girl will eventually be able to tell us how the husband talks about his loss. Does he now see it as a mistake for her to have ignored vaccination, and to have travelled freely and interacted closely with many other unvaccinated people under pandemic circumstances? Or does he ascribe his wife's death to some other non virus-related cause? Or ... what?

I ask in the hope of understanding such people better (and hence learning how to persuade them to act more rationally for their own and for others' sakes), not because I want to mock or ridicule them.

Chap your last sentence is exactly why I started posting about this case. To try to understand the perplexing choices they made when most of us put on a mask when it was recommended and got vaccinated as soon as we could. My husband has known this man for decades now. I have only met the wife once, maybe twice. Otherwise he is part of a group of coffee buddies that meets up multiple times each week to talk politics and family, or whatever retired guys talk about and who don't go hang out in a tavern.

I have swung between compassion and raging in my head upon every update. She went on that trip with an adult daughter to see family, one of which was their son in SC. I think they also visited AL to see her great-grandchildren. But for the life of me, I don't know why a woman her age would choose to travel unvaccinated during a pandemic and without regular masking.

I learned that she was 72 and he is 74. They would have been in the second tier group to receive vaccinations and yet, they chose otherwise. They are both from the South and a Christian family. He (I don't know about the wife) goes to church every Sunday in his Sunday best attire. He sends out Christmas cards every year even though we live only miles away. He has been generous and kind to our family. Giving wedding gifts and I just learned the other day that he attended the funeral of our family member who died a tragic death. I didn't know who attended because my mind was on protecting his survivor. I will tell you, this man would give you the literal shirt off his back. When my husband had surgery the very end of March, he is the one who came over to get him out of the house (and away from me, no doubt! It was a long recovery!) and back to coffee as soon as he was able to travel. One or two of those days, I guess I didn't do a good enough job of shoveling snow for a walker, so he shoveled around himself. He didn't have to do any of those things I mentioned, he is just a generous person.

And yet, it is hard to get past the precautions part. It's not like we haven't lived the past 14 months with daily/around the clock Covid reports in our face. It's not like the doctors and governors haven't busted their behinds on a daily basis to warn us and guide us. I recall that when we first heard the pandemic was going down, going into Walmart and seeing a mother and daughter wearing nice cloth masks; making a mental note to find some masks for us. We already had some so I think I started masking before the mandates were issued. I made my family members mask if they came over and socially distanced from them in my own home. I didn't hug my people for a year. I cancelled last Thanksgiving! Listen, I am no genius and yet, I knew the whole time that if I or my husband were to show symptoms of any kind...it was an immediate trip to the doctor or hospital full stop. Again, I am no genius level thinker here. I just paid attention, learned what I could, and tried to preserve my own life.

So how are these folks different from us in their thinking? The answer to that remains to be seen or heard. I do know that while in the hospital and only communicating by phone, that his wife told him to get vaccinated. Will he do it?

And from a believing standpoint, how many times does the Lord have to supply your needs (for information, simple masking, and then, a scientific breakthrough miracle of the vaccines) and stand back and watch you mess up at every turn before you wake up and smell the coffee burning on the stove? He has a granddaughter's wedding to attend tomorrow. Can you even believe what that will be like on an emotional level?

In her final days, they allowed visitors. They lowered her oxygen pressure but had to raise it again because she couldn't breathe without the oxygen mask--I think a venturi oxygen mask? Looking back on it, I can see that they were testing her. They installed a nasogastric feeding tube to increase her nutrition. And then yesterday morning he called my husband crying because the doctors discussed removal of life support with him and the decision making authority was his. Around 4 pm yesterday, they removed life support. She took three breaths and then died in his presence. I am thankful that they were together. By my estimate, they were married for approximately 50 years.

I am sure there will be a service for his wife coming up here shortly. And, if I go I am wearing one of my nice cloth masks. I don't care that I'm vaccinated. I'm doing it because it is still the right thing to do for myself and others. Anyway, I have prayed about this and I know that in this case and in relation to this family, that my feelings of frustration don't matter. The only thing that matters is that my husband's friend and his family are grieving. We will do what we can in support. Maybe do airport runs, I don't know. Or just be an ear and listen. If he needs to get away from the house for a break, he can come over here.

If I hear inklings of what his thinking is going forward, I will share them here. I never expected to have a personal case study to share like this. And yet, there it is. I am going to encourage my husband to encourage him to get vaccinated in honor of his wife's wishes.

Thanks for your comments and for understanding why I posted about this case, Chap.