Problematic John Dehlin, a short list

[jpatterson]

As someone with considerable experience confronting John privately about his bad behavior, I can attest to the fact that it does almost no good. I spoke to him privately about Rosebud years ago, he laughed her story off as some random stalker. I confronted him about how he was approaching the Kristy Money/Kate Kelly drama and he whined about how misunderstood he always is. I confronted him about his shady financial practices with Open Stories Foundation and that's when he finally had enough of me and he excommunicated me from his life.

John is a master at deflecting blame and making excuses for his bad behavior, including grandiose conspiracy theories about people and institutions who are simply out to get him with zero justification.

My favorite is how he acts exasperated that "former friends" are often the ones coming after him. Hey John, that's because you're constantly screwing people over and then when confronted privately, you usually makes the situation even worse by making excuses and deflecting blame. Then you act innocent publicly in order to elicit sympathy from your followers. It's an act that people who know you aren't buying.

Someday I hope Amy Grubbs will feel safe enough to come forward about her experience working for Open Stories Foundation as John's Director of Operations. I've spoken to Amy on several occasions privately (she reached out to me after I published several blog posts about Open Stories Foundation finances), and she has a story to tell as well. I believe John still has her under NDA. There's another practice of his that hearkens back to LDS Inc tactics. Legally muzzling people who he knows have bad things to say about him.

The seven page letter posted earlier was such an impressive microcosm of John's mind. He acknowledges minor imperfections so as to not appear ridiculous, but any major faults are only in the eyes of his enemies, who are conspiring with LDS Inc to take him down because of his righteous cause. Wo is me, I'm the victim, blah blah blah.

Anyway, that's all to say this latest liking/unliking episode and John's long-winded letter absolutely tracks with my private experiences with him. A creep with a (relatively) big microphone and a serious problem with women.

Sorry to hear you're the latest to have creepy run-ins with John, Chelovek and NoManisMyBishop. Just know you're not alone, you're not crazy for feeling they way you're feeling right now.

[Kukulkan]

The more I read the more apparent it becomes that JD needs a good PR person and someone who has a kill switch to his internet when he gets creepy.

PM me JD and we can discuss my payment.

[jpatterson]

John Dehlin needs a good PR person and someone who has a kill switch to his internet when he gets creepy.

PM me John Dehlin and we can discuss my payment.

Please get hired so he'll stop posting stuff like this: https://Twitter.com/johndehlin/status/1 ... 33314?s=20


(shudder)

[Chelovek]

like the supreme idiot he is

We probably all agree on this?

Why is she being picked apart over him?!!!!

I don't know in what kind of alternate universe you occupy where it's THEIR problem where they need to address John Dehlin's creepy-ass behavior privately,

Unfortunately, if she doesn't want to be picked apart publicly over this, the only thing to do would be to deal privately with it. Not saying it's right, it's just what happens when you play things out online, it's a harsh online world out there. If things didn't go well in private and you really wanted to teach John Dehlin a lesson and you weren't concerned about the collateral damage to your private life, then upping the ante and going after him publicly is certainly a way forward. If I really wanted to make an issue of it and don't mind the flak.

Actually it's because she is an extremely brave person that she called him out publicly..... It's too bad we live in such a misogynistic patriarchal world. I'm curious too... Where is the actual "rule book"? It's okay then if John Dehlin is creepy in private if not called out privately? The mere fact of being called out publicly over in private makes his actions different. I would hope if someone was being raped they would be brave enough to scream and shout with all their might for anyone to hear and then upon hearing others would come to give support. It's no wonder that victims do remain silent. Of course there was realization on the flack that would hit our family by calling him out and at the same time it's okay to be completely sick of it!

[Atlantic]

I again come back to the context of the post on this one. John proactively asked for examples of how ex-Mormon men could treat women better. This seems just about the most appropriate place to share something like this: on a post asking for these types of examples of bad behavior. If ever there was a time to say "he asked for the criticism" surely it is this specific post.

All John needs to do is learn from this one and be less hasty on the like-bombing on Facebook next time. It would shock me if he did something like this again.

[Chelovek]

John Dehlin has a doctorate's in psychology and psychology therapy. Talking to him privately is actually kind of ridiculous.

Hi Chelovek, thanks for taking the time to provide some much needed context and additional information, this doesn't sound like a great situation for you both. These boards are full of people with a spectrum of opinions, some are very pro-JD, some the opposite and some are just whiling away the hours posting irrelevance while waiting to come out of lockdown. That's what happens when things are in the public domain, rightly or wrongly.

It is often difficult to come to any reliable conclusion with all the hearsay, innuendo, etc... that gets posted here, so it's good to hear it from the horse's mouth so to speak. Up until your post, there seemed to be a preponderance of opinion that it was his reaction that was the most extraordinary aspect of this episode, but what I'm hearing from you both is that the actual liking/re-linking of the images was the most shocking aspect for you both? In your mind is there any possibility to explain away his behaviour?

Just to question something I quoted above. I'm interested why you think it would have been ridiculous to talk privately to John Dehlin? If it were possible, would this have been your preference?

Not sure if I agree with the Joseph Smith/BY comparison, but what would you want to have happen with John Dehlin now?

I don't know if you saw the comment I left kishkumin for the reasons why she did what she did. If not please read that. Of course anyone who's not in the immediate situation would not completey understand. I don't expect them to. I relate John Dehlin to Joseph Smith in this context because that's where it all begins. Ironically you don't gain power in a cult until members within the cult are put in a situation to question that leader but do not because of who they are. I guarantee you Joseph Smith started with the very same small steps as John Dehlin is now taking. Do I think John Dehlin is trying to be like Joseph Smith, no. I do believe he has gained traction and power within the ex-Mormon communities and the story is the same story of old when it comes to power. The ex Mormon community is a very vulnerable community. I was a bishop and on a regular I get ex-Mormons reaching out to me for advice "because I was a bishop". I don't know these people or their situation but because I was once a bishop in their minds I had dealt with similar situations and can help. John Dehlin thrives on these vulnerable communities. As far as explaining his behavior I don't think it was any more than "morning wood". Only he can speak for himself on that one because I really don't know. We have nothing to gain by calling him out and only communities to lose. I may just do this so it would give an actual presentation on what he actually did.... If I were to follow in his footsteps and like exactly the same images he liked in the same order I guarantee you would take me at least an hour. These were posts made with at least dozens of other post in between them. I should do this and film it so people would get a real view of exactly what he did. What hurt the worst was that he did do it at all. Even once was inappropriate it just compounds when it's multiple times. He has never denied that he did do this.... Only that it's just something "everybody does" and he didn't realize it would make her uncomfortable. I do not see how he would not see that it would make her very uncomfortable and also make it impossible to actually do an interview with him and talk about the sensitive things we would be talking about in his presence. Talking to him in private would have been exactly what he would have liked and most definitely protects him. If you could have seen the comments John Dehlin was deleting as they were being posted of other women he has misbehaved with you would understand why it needed to be public.

[jpatterson]

If you could have seen the comments John Dehlin was deleting as they were being posted of other women he has misbehaved with you would understand why it needed to be public.

Isn't one of John's favorite lines "sunshine makes the best disinfectant?"

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

I again come back to the context of the post on this one. John proactively asked for examples of how ex-Mormon men could treat women better. This seems just about the most appropriate place to share something like this: on a post asking for these types of examples of bad behavior. If ever there was a time to say "he asked for the criticism" surely it is this specific post.

100%. He literally, on a public forum, asked for examples of bad behavior. It’s interesting to me that it took only one instance of a minor misstep with KE regarding a tone deaf comment on race for him to post a video, acknowledge the situation, and state publicly he’d do better and yet, with women, mum is the word.

Makes ya go, “HRMMM.”

Well. Whatever happens I’m 100%, 1,000%, and even 10,000% sure he’ll do better moving forward. Heck. He might even THRIVE if he maintains thems appropriate boundaries!

- Doc

[master_dc]

John Dehlin needs a good PR person and someone who has a kill switch to his internet when he gets creepy.

PM me John Dehlin and we can discuss my payment.

Please get hired so he'll stop posting stuff like this: https://Twitter.com/johndehlin/status/1 ... 33314?s=20


(shudder)

well played, JP, well played

[master_dc]

I must say that the past month on this board has opened up some very relevant topics. Recent experience has given me a new perspective that i think is relevant to this topic.

This past week I had the opportunity to serve as a juror for a criminal trial. The charges had to do with a man exposing and touching his genitals to a woman that was cleaning the building (her job). This man allegedly opened his door when she was feet away, said something to her (she doesn't speak any English, at all) and she ran outside the building. This happened twice, with police notified immediately after the second incident. There biggest hang up for the jury was believing the first incident happened because the victim claims she didn't tell a single person. This topic was in the forefront of my mind, especially due to the Rosebud situation, so myself and others tried to explain, multiple times, that often victims of sexual assault/harassments don't speak up. Some accepted that explanation, but a woman on the jury was never really convinced. She could not get passed what she would have done in that situation. Something i think we all can be guilty of too often in our lives.

I keep seeing posts in these threads comparing the patriarchy found in the church and the exmo community as being the foundation for abhorrent behavior, especially from men. My shallow but wide experience with this topic has me convinced that this behavior is not more pronounced due to a Mormon upbringing than almost any other upbringing in the world. Patriarchy is probably the oldest societal structure known to man. It is being squashed out in some parts of the world, but it is a slow burn.

JD's behavior, liking pics of another woman, happens to my wife all the time, and like the victim in this thread, she definitely gets creeped out. I am 100% guilty of saying things like "well, if you get upset when someone "likes" it, but it is the wrong "someone," should you post it?." Because that is how I would respond to the situation. Previous ward members who have kids my wife's age that are recently divorced seem to follow this pattern, but at the same time, plenty of non-members, married and not, also do this. Most happily married people will not bulk like someone's photos. I understand there might be a reason for the JD behavior, prepping for an interview, but not sure if i buy it, and regardless, it is still weird.

I am sorry you are going through this.