Leaked videos of meetings with the Q15

[_Sanctorian]

Depends on how you define devastating. Is next to zero educated convert baptisms (i.e. Tithe payers) because of the accessibility of information like this considered devastating? Is shrinking tithe payers from within the core membership because of information like this considered devastating? Is the best and brightest leaving the church because of information like this devastating?

I don't think anyone would argue the church will be around for a very very long time. It would be near impossible to bankrupt a multi billion dollar tax exempt organization in any scenario regardless how poorly it was managed. However, the church is losing on all fronts and that should be considered devastating to a church that claims the divine hand is guiding the ship.

[_Lemmie]

Devastating? No. Revealing? Yes.

To be fair to the leadership in the videos, we enjoy the benefit of years of knowledge and reporting on the subjects being discussed so it's difficult to judge how naïve they should be considered compared to samples of contemporaries in similar positions of power and authority. But even with that recognition, the questions they ask and the behavior they exhibit over what draws their concerns is not going to be as comfortable to many younger people with an internet connection than they might be to, say, a retiree who listens to KSL all day.

And the Gordon Smith video is damning if it never actually turns out to be "devastating".

Agreed. If i had voted for Gordon Smith i wouldn't need to be an angry or disgruntled person to be stunned that he and his staff are 'church-broke' and that the church calls the shots in his political decision-making process. So yes, that's a no-brainer.

And agreed, the conversations these men have about other people's sexual orientation is not in any way how I assume regular people get together and discuss plans. I don't know a lot of people, young OR old, who consistently express such bias as that found on those videos.

[Guest]

Wow! Just wow! These videos are going to be devastating.

There's one person who feels that way.

Regards,
MG

[_mentalgymnast]

These videos are absolutely devastating. ...These people are driving our civilization into a ditch.

Here's another.

As I said and/or alluded to earlier, I think this might be a bit over the top.

Regards,
MG

[_Sanctorian]

Hey MG, why don't you ask the TBM parents of a gay Mormon child that committed suicide recently because of the homophobia of Oaks and Packer if these videos are devastating? Their responses might change your mind.

[_mentalgymnast]

Hey MG, why don't you ask the TBM parents of a gay Mormon child that committed suicide recently because of the homophobia of Oaks and Packer if these videos are devastating? Their responses might change your mind.

No matter which angle you look at the gay teen suicide issue from, it is sad and unfortunate. I think that Elder Oaks and Packer...when he was alive...were and are caught between a rock and a hard place. My guess is that they mourn with those that mourn but are torn knowing that they are under obligation...to the Almighty as far as they are concerned...to put 'one man and one woman' out in front as the 'God ordained' teachings/practice in regards to the covenant of marriage.

I don't envy them. They are in a place where I definitely would not want to be.

Regards,
MG

[_Red Ryder]

Is Oaks really capable of mourning the lost life of a gay teenager? No way unless Elder Gong debriefed him on proper grieving techniques.

Apparently credit default swaps and a basic care for all humanity are not his strong points.

[_DarkHelmet]

Hey MG, why don't you ask the TBM parents of a gay Mormon child that committed suicide recently because of the homophobia of Oaks and Packer if these videos are devastating? Their responses might change your mind.

No matter which angle you look at the gay teen suicide issue from, it is sad and unfortunate. I think that Elder Oaks and Packer...when he was alive...were and are caught between a rock and a hard place. My guess is that they mourn with those that mourn but are torn knowing that they are under obligation...to the Almighty as far as they are concerned...to put 'one man and one woman' out in front as the 'God ordained' teachings/practice in regards to the covenant of marriage.

I don't envy them. They are in a place where I definitely would not want to be.

Regards,
MG

You can't be serious. Are we going to blame God for the Mormon gay suicides now? "Sorry, nothing we can do about it. God forced us to make this policy. We're just as upset as you are." These guys don't have the balls to claim god spoke directly to them and gave them a "Thus saith the Lord" revelation the way Joseph Smith used to do it. They just made the policy and then a few months later one apostle claimed it was a revelation. Give us a break. These guys run the church and make the decisions. They came up with this nutty policy. They are responsible for the negative results because of it, and they have blood on their hands for all these suicides.

[_grindael]

Hey MG, why don't you ask the TBM parents of a gay Mormon child that committed suicide recently because of the homophobia of Oaks and Packer if these videos are devastating? Their responses might change your mind.

No matter which angle you look at the gay teen suicide issue from, it is sad and unfortunate. I think that Elder Oaks and Packer...when he was alive...were and are caught between a rock and a hard place. My guess is that they mourn with those that mourn but are torn knowing that they are under obligation...to the Almighty as far as they are concerned...to put 'one man and one woman' out in front as the 'God ordained' teachings/practice in regards to the covenant of marriage.

Que the violins. Oh... apology.

[_Sanctorian]

Hey MG, why don't you ask the TBM parents of a gay Mormon child that committed suicide recently because of the homophobia of Oaks and Packer if these videos are devastating? Their responses might change your mind.

No matter which angle you look at the gay teen suicide issue from, it is sad and unfortunate. I think that Elder Oaks and Packer...when he was alive...were and are caught between a rock and a hard place. My guess is that they mourn with those that mourn but are torn knowing that they are under obligation...to the Almighty as far as they are concerned...to put 'one man and one woman' out in front as the 'God ordained' teachings/practice in regards to the covenant of marriage.

I don't envy them. They are in a place where I definitely would not want to be.

Regards,
MG

I'm not asking what Oaks and Packer think. It's pretty obvious what they think. I'm just disappointed you don't have the balls to stand up against their homophobia. Maybe that's the point. Maybe you agree with them.