Leaked videos of meetings with the Q15

[_Polygamy-Porter]

I don't envy them. They are in a place where I definitely would not want to be.

Regards,
MG

Do you think they drink (ohh) Shhhnapple Iced Tea® from Costco®?

[_I have a question]

The thing that strikes me most about these videos is the manner in which these leaders go about things. To find out information about what's happening in the world on any given subject they wheel in so-called experts to stand before them to give them a brief and answer questions. What do they think they're doing - some kind of senate hearing?

It's ineffective, a poor use of time, not even close to being conducive to getting the best from the people coming to answer questions. It's stuffy, formal, cumbersome, riddled with ego and status barriers in the room. It's 1950's courtroom drama.

Anyone with an ounce of knowledge about modern leadership techniques can see that these meetings display a lack of leadership competence and a group of people stuck in an archaic way of doing things.

It is little wonder that the Church trails society by fifty years, playing catch up all the time.
It needs modern thinking and the process for electing top leaders is a barrier because it puts people in their 70's 80's and 90's into decision making roles.

There is no chance of progress whilst the Church operates like this.

[_I have a question]

When the LDS Church was asked Monday if it is trying to identify the leaker or if it has filed a complaint with the police or taken steps to secure its documents and videos, spokesman Eric Hawkins declined to comment.

Lost for words Eric?

No matter how mundane the videos are, some Mormons found disconcerting elements in them.

"I don't think anyone is questioning the motivation of the Quorum [of the Twelve Apostles] to solicit information from outside sources," Mormon scholar, writer and podcaster Gina Colvin wrote from New Zealand. "However, the sources, the consultants, their responses and their questions are somewhat questionable. These meetings demonstrate a poverty-stricken discourse lacking in thoughtful complexity and ideological, cultural and gender diversity."

http://www.sltrib.com/news/4428322-155/ ... fullpage=1
This.

[_Kishkumen]

These videos are absolutely devastating. ...These people are driving our civilization into a ditch.

Here's another.

As I said and/or alluded to earlier, I think this might be a bit over the top.

Regards,
MG

I don't believe so. In my view, the McCarthyite moral police of the religious right, with their meddling in political affairs and aim to curtail the rights of citizens have done inestimable damage to the United States of America. LDS leaders stand on the vanguard of this scourge.

[_Kishkumen]

No matter which angle you look at the gay teen suicide issue from, it is sad and unfortunate. I think that Elder Oaks and Packer...when he was alive...were and are caught between a rock and a hard place. My guess is that they mourn with those that mourn but are torn knowing that they are under obligation...to the Almighty as far as they are concerned...to put 'one man and one woman' out in front as the 'God ordained' teachings/practice in regards to the covenant of marriage.

I don't envy them. They are in a place where I definitely would not want to be.

Regards,
MG

Sad and unfortunate. The very thing you do your damnedest every day to avoid, the thing that motivates so many to invest so much in the afterlife--the fact of death--and you brush it off as "sad and unfortunate." It is downright tragic and horrible that any young person, especially ones as marvelous, talented and promising as these gay teens, should be driven to utter despair and self-annihilation by the inhuman doctrines and policies on gender of the LDS Church.

Your mealy-mouthed equivocations and enabling of the immoral doctrines and policies on gender of the LDS Church sicken me.

[_Kishkumen]

A certain kiwi apologist makes this stunning observation regarding Elder Gong's presentation on cyber-security:

But how do you know the line of questioning wasn't intended to disclose the extent to which gay employees represent a security risk?

Wouldn't it be funny if the leaker turned out to be yet another example of that pattern?

In other words, the bigoted kiwi insightfully opines that the Brethren's questions about gays are "appropriately" aimed at the issue of cyber-security.

The Brethren, in kiwi's view, want to know whether gay Church employees, because they are, well, gay, pose a greater security risk to the Church.

And the data set they are looking at is Chelsea Manning and Julian Assange.

So, based on the alleged/assumed sexual identities of two non-LDS people, the Elders of Zion think they can get a bead on how risky it is for the Church to employ gay people. At least, kiwi readily supposes that.

And this would presumably lead to discrimination against gays in hiring, which the Church later came out against. Of course, the Church still freely discriminates against gays in its hiring policies, since it can revoke the temple recommends of gays, thus making them ineligible for Church employment. And in kiwi's view, this is a good thing, since the Brethren are clearly worried about the possible treachery of gays.

[_candygal]

Hey MG, why don't you ask the TBM parents of a gay Mormon child that committed suicide recently because of the homophobia of Oaks and Packer if these videos are devastating? Their responses might change your mind.

No matter which angle you look at the gay teen suicide issue from, it is sad and unfortunate. I think that Elder Oaks and Packer...when he was alive...were and are caught between a rock and a hard place. My guess is that they mourn with those that mourn but are torn knowing that they are under obligation...to the Almighty as far as they are concerned...to put 'one man and one woman' out in front as the 'God ordained' teachings/practice in regards to the covenant of marriage.

I don't envy them. They are in a place where I definitely would not want to be.

Regards,
MG

You won't find them where you will be. You will be in hell Their hell was co-existing with a-holes like you!

[_mentalgymnast]

Hey MG, why don't you ask the TBM parents of a gay Mormon child that committed suicide recently because of the homophobia of Oaks and Packer if these videos are devastating? Their responses might change your mind.

No matter which angle you look at the gay teen suicide issue from, it is sad and unfortunate. I think that Elder Oaks and Packer...when he was alive...were and are caught between a rock and a hard place. My guess is that they mourn with those that mourn but are torn knowing that they are under obligation...to the Almighty as far as they are concerned...to put 'one man and one woman' out in front as the 'God ordained' teachings/practice in regards to the covenant of marriage.

I don't envy them. They are in a place where I definitely would not want to be.

You won't find them where you will be. You will be in hell Their hell was co-existing with a-holes like you!

I have never run across folks that get more bent out of shape over things than I have here. Wow. You don't know me and yet you feel free to judge me as being like unto an anus. And that I'm going to hell. As though you are the eternal judge. What a bloated ego/sense of self you have! A GOD!

I have relatives...three that I know of...that are gay. They are welcome in our family. They are not shunned. As far as I know they are happy and have adjusted to their sexuality in a way that serves them well and they live life in a productive way. I am not AT ALL sure why you and Kish and others would look at me personally as somehow being a monster for having expressed the thoughts that I did.

It seems as though you need to have a live 'whipping boy'? Does it make you feel good to call someone else the name of your own anatomical release valve for excreting waste?

I know, the answer is probably yes. And, you think it is warranted. And...

Nonetheless, I think if we were to sit down face to face and you knew who I am and what I'm all about you would likely not picture me as the orifice to the intestinal tract. As I've mentioned previously, when you're part of a consensual group as you are here it is really difficult to be kind to the outliers. And all kinds of logical/reasonable reasons can be found for acting that way. You will find support for expressing almost whatever you want in whatever way you want. Isn't it wonderful?

What I said in my previous post I think is the reality 'on the ground'. Why should I be faulted for stating what may actually be the truth from the perspective of those folks I am referring to?

I'm talking to you too Kishkumen.

You guys sound awfully similar to the folks that respond with hatred and vitriol in the Trib. comments section anytime there is a pile up against the church or Mormons in general. Foul language and absolute disgust, etc. I can empathize with the fact that you have strong feelings in regards to this topic. But I would suggest that you think carefully about who you're going to tie up to the whipping post.

Why hold me personally responsible over something that I have no control over? Go figure...

Regards,
MG

[_candygal]

Hey MG, why don't you ask the TBM parents of a gay Mormon child that committed suicide recently because of the homophobia of Oaks and Packer if these videos are devastating? Their responses might change your mind.

No matter which angle you look at the gay teen suicide issue from, it is sad and unfortunate. I think that Elder Oaks and Packer...when he was alive...were and are caught between a rock and a hard place. My guess is that they mourn with those that mourn but are torn knowing that they are under obligation...to the Almighty as far as they are concerned...to put 'one man and one woman' out in front as the 'God ordained' teachings/practice in regards to the covenant of marriage.

I don't envy them. They are in a place where I definitely would not want to be.

You won't find them where you will be. You will be in hell Their hell was co-existing with a-holes like you!

I have never run across folks that get more bent out of shape over things than I have here. Wow. You don't know me and yet you feel free to judge me as being like unto an anus. And that I'm going to hell. As though you are the eternal judge. What a bloated ego/sense of self you have! A GOD!

I have relatives...three that I know of...that are gay. They are welcome in our family. They are not shunned. As far as I know they are happy and have adjusted to their sexuality in a way that serves them well and they live life in a productive way. I am not AT ALL sure why you and Kish and others would look at me personally as somehow being a monster for having expressed the thoughts that I did.

It seems as though you need to have a live 'whipping boy'? Does it make you feel good to call someone else the name of your own anatomical release valve for excreting waste?

I know, the answer is probably yes. And, you think it is warranted. And...

Nonetheless, I think if we were to sit down face to face and you knew who I am and what I'm all about you would likely not picture me as the orifice to the intestinal tract. As I've mentioned previously, when you're part of a consensual group as you are here it is really difficult to be kind to the outliers. And all kinds of logical/reasonable reasons can be found for acting that way. You will find support for expressing almost whatever you want in whatever way you want. Isn't it wonderful?

What I said in my previous post I think is the reality 'on the ground'. Why should I be faulted for stating what may actually be the truth from the perspective of those folks I am referring to?

I'm talking to you too Kishkumen.

You guys sound awfully similar to the folks that respond with hatred and vitriol in the Trib. comments section anytime there is a pile up against the church or Mormons in general. Foul language and absolute disgust, etc. I can empathize with the fact that you have strong feelings in regards to this topic. But I would suggest that you think carefully about who you're going to tie up to the whipping post.

Why hold me personally responsible over something that I have no control over? Go figure...

Regards,
MG

You are right and I apologize. I really don't know you. I am having an angry day and taking it out on all the boards. I just have so much suicide in my family..that I can't even take the word without reliving and trying to understand all the whys. Three months ago, my sister's grand daughter hung herself ..19 years old..and it sounded like you took things so lightly. But you right. Please don't judge the rest of the board on my bad judgement today.

[_mentalgymnast]

You are right and I apologize.

Apology accepted.

I really don't know you.

True. All you know is my persona that I portray on this board. And I've explained multiple times what I'm about when I'm posting here.

I am having an angry day and taking it out on all the boards.

Sorry to hear you're having a bad day. Really. But that doesn't excuse random acts of non-kindness.

I just have so much suicide in my family..that I can't even take the word without reliving and trying to understand all the whys. Three months ago, my sister's grand daughter hung herself ..19 years old...

That is sad. And unfortunate. We had young person about the same age in my extended family take his life a few years ago due to inappropriate local church leader intervention into his life. I will let it go at that. I was pissed off at the time and still am. I grew up with his mom when we were kids. She and her husband were devastated. They no longer attend/belong to the church. An all around sad and unfortunate situation.

..and it sounded like you took things so lightly.

I think I was stating things as I see them 'on the ground'. I can't hide away what may be the reality.

Please don't judge the rest of the board on my bad judgement today.

I've conversed with some very nice and civil folks on this board. I would not judge those folks by your actions or the actions of others that I have failed to have positive/neutral/civil interaction with. I know who is who.

Anyway, I hope things work out for you and tomorrow is a better day!

Regards,
MG