Sanctorian wrote:It's not shocking really. Get your choir out in front of all the weak minded hillbillies in hopes that some convert. Those suckers voted Trump. If they believe that guy will be a good president, they might believe Joe was a prophet. Sounds like they've identified their target market.
I agree. I actually think there is an additional benefit to the alliance now the cat is out of the bag on Joseph Smith's behavior. If members can accept T's immorality on behalf of the "greater good" then they will be more open to accepting Smith's.
Dean Robbers,
A significant insight if ever there was one.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."
DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
Has everyone suddenly forgotten how the church rolled out the red carpet for Dick Cheney to speak at BYU, even going to far as grant him an honorary degree in the process?
The only thing surprising is that anyone is surprised.
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"
Dr. Shades wrote:Has everyone suddenly forgotten how the church rolled out the red carpet for Dick Cheney to speak at BYU, even going to far as grant him an honorary degree in the process?
The only thing surprising is that anyone is surprised.
I don't think that many people here are surprised.
NOMinal member
Maksutov: "... if you give someone else the means to always push your buttons, you're lost."
SALT LAKE CITY — The Mormon Tabernacle Choir, dubbed "America's Choir" by Ronald Reagan during his first inauguration, will sing at Donald Trump's inauguration on Jan. 20, the president-elect's team and the choir announced Thursday morning.
But by Thursday afternoon the LDS Church was balancing strong reactions of both pride in the choir's participation in an important act of American governance with a backlash of anger that it might be seen as a statement of support for the controversial president-elect.
“Response to the announcement has been mixed, with people expressing both opposition and support," church spokesman Eric Hawkins said in a statement. "The choir's participation continues its long tradition of performing for U.S. presidents of both parties at inaugurations and in other settings, and is not an implied support of party affiliations or politics. It is a demonstration of our support for freedom, civility and the peaceful transition of power.”
It saddens me to see this magnificent choir submersing itself in the slime that is Donnie's swamp. We are supposed to stand up for what is good and right, and Donnie does not show that in any part of his life. We are supposed to support and defend women, and Donnie brags about molesting them. We are supposed to love and honor all our brothers and sisters, and Donnie vilifies him.
Accepting this invitation to sing at Donnie's inauguration does not cast a good light on what my church/faith is supposed to be. I recognize that Donnie is been selected as the titular head of my country's government for the next four years, but that doesn't mean that we all have to lower ourselves to his level. And that's chat the MTC is doing by singing at the inauguration. Hopefully it will see the light, and decline. The choir should not be sliming itself by submersing itself in Donnie's swamp.
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
The troll comments on the MoTab's Facebook page are priceless. You should give 'em a looksee.
- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
Dr. Shades wrote:Has everyone suddenly forgotten how the church rolled out the red carpet for Dick Cheney to speak at BYU, even going to far as grant him an honorary degree in the process?
The only thing surprising is that anyone is surprised.
Exactly correct observstion-remember the Mormons condemn the world but crave its praise as getting worldly celebs to acknowledge they exist- the Church may condemn the Donald but any opportunithy to get worldy praise including that of the inauguration committee is sought after and cherished.
DrW wrote:If there were ever any doubt that the LDS Church is, at its core racist, homophobic, misogynistic, and fundamentally dishonest, it has just been erased by Mormons lending their signature choir, and wholehearted public support, to an unqualified presidential candidate who is all of these and worse.
Two possible answers:
1. They are honoring the Office of the Presidency rather than Trump.
2. Never pass up a chance to sing at a paying gig.
For 80 years, the Deseret News has not entered into the troubled waters of presidential endorsement. We are neutral on matters of partisan politics. We do, however, feel a duty to speak clearly on issues that affect the well-being and morals of the nation.
Accordingly, today we call on Donald Trump to step down from his pursuit of the American presidency.
In democratic elections, ideas have consequences, leadership matters and character counts.
The idea that women secretly welcome the unbridled and aggressive sexual advances of powerful men has led to the mistreatment, sorrow and subjugation of countless women for far too much of human history.
The notion that strength emanates from harsh, divisive and unbending rhetorical flourish mistakenly equates leadership with craven intimidation.
The belief that the party and the platform matter more than the character of the candidate ignores the wisdom of the ages that, “when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn.” (Proverbs 29:2)
We understand that politicians and presidential candidates are human and that everyone makes mistakes. We do not believe that what is expressed in an unguarded moment of conversation should be the full measure of an individual. And we unquestionably support the principle that people deserve forgiveness, compassion and a second chance.
But history affirms that leaders' examples either elevate or demean the lives of those being led. When choosing the ostensible leader of the free world, the American electorate requires the clear assurance that their chosen candidate will consistently put the well-being of others ahead of his or her own personal gratification. The most recent revelations of Trump’s lewdness disturb us not only because of his vulgar objectification of women, but also because they poignantly confirm Trump’s inability to self-govern.
What oozes from this audio is evil. We hear a married man give smooth, smug and self-congratulatory permission to his intense impulses, allowing them to outweigh the most modest sense of decency, fidelity and commitment. And although it speaks volumes about sexual morality, it goes to the heart of all ethical behavior. Trump’s banter belies a willingness to use and discard other human beings at will. That characteristic is the essence of a despot.
Nor is this an isolated incident. His reprehensible sexual speech confirms troubling reports and outrageous outbursts that have dogged his campaign from the beginning. Another example appeared earlier this week detailing Trump’s language and behavior on his reality television show, "The Apprentice."
The Associated Press “interviewed more than 20 people — former crew members, editors and contestants — who described crass behavior by Trump behind the scenes of the long-running hit show.”
In the face of these revelations, it is disheartening to see otherwise decent individuals now attempting to defend Trump’s talk, dismissing it as mere “locker room” bravado. At the time of the audio recording, Trump was not a hormonal teenage athlete, but rather a 60-year-old husband of an expectant mother and the father of four children.
America’s locker rooms deserve better.
When Donald Trump’s running mate Indiana Gov. Mike Pence visited Utah and met with members of the Deseret News Editorial Board, he assured us that Mr. Trump was a "good man" who held "the ideals and values” of Utahns. Likewise, while visiting the Beehive State, Donald Trump Jr. told us that his father was running because of the “values held dear in this community.”
Considering his conduct and comportment, we do not believe Trump holds the ideals and values of this community or this paper.
We are grateful for the courageous decision by many of Utah’s leading Republican politicians to renounce the top of their ticket.
Some will see our denunciation of Trump as tantamount to an endorsement of former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. That is not the case. Although she comes with extraordinary experience, Clinton promotes social and economic policies we cannot support and she too has a history of self-dealing that gives us significant pause.
Should Clinton prevail in this presidential contest, we trust she — and those in the Congress that hold the presidency in check — will recognize that her likely victory against a self-wounded candidate is not a mandate for her specific platform, but rather a repudiation of Trump’s flaws.
We prefer to stand for something rather than against someone. But this is one of those rare moments where it is necessary to take a clear stand against the hucksterism, misogyny, narcissism and latent despotism that infect the Trump campaign even as we hope for a more auspicious future of liberty, prosperity and peace for the nation.
As the next few consequential weeks unfold, we trust the American people, as they vote their conscience, will provide a clarion call for sound ideas, true leadership and proven character from our next administration and Congress.
Trump cannot answer that call. We ask him to step aside.