Facsimile No. 3 lies

[_aussieguy55]

What always amused me about Fac 3 was the scene claimed to be a prince and a slave holding onto a waiter. Did the waiter insult Abraham? Did he disagree with Abraham? So silly.

[_fetchface]

Occasionally you will see ex-mormons ask the question, "What if there were a smoking gun that could totally prove that Joseph was lying?" My reply has always been, "You mean something like Facsimile 3?"

The truth is, no Mormon would look at similar evidence in another belief system (like, say, the Jehovah's Witnesses) and think it was anything less than absolute proof of fraud. The only reason that they are willing to spend any time at all entertaining convoluted explanations is that they are already invested in the system. The mind is tempted to make irrational excuses because we already got practice doing that sort of thing as Mormons. Even ex-mormons have trouble seeing it sometimes.

[_Shulem]

Occasionally you will see ex-mormons ask the question, "What if there were a smoking gun that could totally prove that Joseph was lying?" My reply has always been, "You mean something like Facsimile 3?"

The truth is, no Mormon would look at similar evidence in another belief system (like, say, the Jehovah's Witnesses) and think it was anything less than absolute proof of fraud. The only reason that they are willing to spend any time at all entertaining convoluted explanations is that they are already invested in the system. The mind is tempted to make irrational excuses because we already got practice doing that sort of thing as Mormons. Even ex-mormons have trouble seeing it sometimes.

The LDS church would never accept the Explanations of Facsimile No. 3 from any religious organization other than its own and even so, they do it grudgingly because Facsimile No. 3 has proven to be a thorn in the side of the church, egg on the face, and nothing but embarrassment. Mormons are stuck with it ever since they were first published in the Times & Seasons and later canonized by a bunch of old crusty 1880's men who didn’t know jack about Egyptology.

It goes to show just how uninspired Mormon leaders are of every era and that the Spirit of Mormonism is a sham. Knowing what I know of the Spirit of Mormonism -- I therefore deny the Spirit. Indeed, I deny the Holy Ghost and the Explanations of Facsimile No. 3 and do so with a clear conscience and in a sense of well being.

Amen.

[_Philo Sofee]

Please note that the narrative testifies that Joseph Smith claimed he was the only mortal that could translate the Egyptian writing upon the papyrus purchased by the LDS church. In that era, no one in the world could read Egyptian and the Mormons knew this when they purchased the Egyptian artifacts from Chandler. Joseph Smith knew that the ancient language was a dead language and that no one could verify or disprove his own translations.

"Some parchments inscribed with hieroglyphics were then offered us. They were preserved under glass and handled with great respect. 'THAT IS THE WRITING OF ABRAHAM, the Father of the Faithful,' said the prophet, 'THIS IS THE AUTOGRAPH OF MOSES, and THESE LINES WERE WRITTEN BY HIS BROTHER AARON. . . . . .We were further assured that the prophet was the ONLY MORTAL WHO COULD TRANSLATE these mysterious writings, and that his power was given by direct revelation."

Josiah Quincy, Figures of the Past, p. 385; Nauvoo, May 1844
The Saga of the Book of Abraham; Jay M. Todd, p. 256
The Story of the Pearl of Great Price; James R. Clark, p. 112,113


QUESTION: Which is easier to believe: Explanations of Facsimile No. 3 or Moses and Aaron were authors to Joseph’s papyri?

[ ] Facsimile No. 3 Explanations is easier to believe
[ ] Autographs of Moses and Aaron on the papyrus is easier to believe

Are we sure Quincy actually quoted Joseph Smith correctly here? The autographs of Moses and Aaron?! I mean, I have become skeptical of a lot, but this is astonishing to no end! Autographs? The bizarreness of this almost demands we have a Joseph Smith source for this.... I'm just askin.

[_Shulem]

Are we sure Quincy actually quoted Joseph Smith correctly here? The autographs of Moses and Aaron?! I mean, I have become skeptical of a lot, but this is astonishing to no end! Autographs? The bizarreness of this almost demands we have a Joseph Smith source for this.... I'm just askin.

We can never be absolutely sure that Joseph Smith was correctly quoted in this news report because it is second hand. But when we combine the many quotes from various sources there is consistency showing that the overall corroborating evidence is honest reporting. Statements made by both believers and unbelievers seem genuine and consistent insomuch as they are simply trying to quote the prophet the best they can.

One thing we can be absolutely sure is that Joseph Smith's Explanations of the Facsimile No. 3 came from him. These are certainly no less bizarre then the supposed autographs and signature that were supposedly on the papyrus.

I'm a little disappointed, Kerry, that you didn't answer the question I posed at the end of my post. :-(

The Facsimile No. 3 was produced by the Prophet Joseph Smith and was published in the Church periodicals of his day. It was presented to the world in the Times & Seasons as a revelation -- translations from Egyptian papyrus, thus restoring the dead Egyptian language to life through the revelatory instrumentality of Joseph Smith. Prior to that, Joseph Smith claimed to translate ancient Egyptian from gold plates. Now he claimed to translate from ancient papyrus!

The Book of Abraham and the Book of Mormon are both frauds. They are not true history. They are stories concocted by Joseph Smith and his companions all for the purpose of starting a new religion and trumping the Catholic and Protestant churches.

If you could go back in time and ask brother Joseph questions about his Explanations of Facsimile No. 3, what would you ask?

How about this:

"Brother Joseph, does the hieroglyphic writing above Pharaoh in the Facsimile contain the actual name of the Egyptian king who befriended father Abraham? What is the name of the king?"

[_Mormonicious]

You are missing the truncation, it is all in the truncation.

[_Shulem]

Translated from conventional Egyptian and Reformed Egyptian

1. The Book of Abraham was presented to the Latter-day Saints as an English translation of the writings of Abraham that were contained on papyrus had by Joseph Smith.

Likewise:

2. The Book of Mormon was presented to the Latter-day Saints as an English translation of the writings of Mormon that were contained on gold plates had by Joseph Smith.

Both claims to translate ancient Egyptian are false. Joseph Smith lied. Those who defend his lies for the sake of maintaining their woo-woo holy spirit driven testimonies are partakers of the original lie. Lay aside your woo-woo ghost-driven testimonies and supposed spiritual manifestations of the brain and start to embrace reality and the cold hard facts.

The following links in WIKIPEDIA are excellent sources worth bookmarking to acquire quick information about the Joseph Smith papyrus and learn more about this controversial subject.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

Book of Abraham
Joseph Smith Papyri
Criticism of the Book of Abraham
Joseph Smith Hypocephalus
Kirtland Egyptian papers
Book of Joseph (Latter Day Saints)
File:Facsimile 3 plate anubis.jpg

[Shulem]

Fig. 6. Anubis, a god belonging to the Egyptian religion:


Restored Lead Plate for Facsimile No. 3: