Polygamy, Shared Guilt, Control

[_Nightlion]

Why thank you, Dean Robbers! Unfortunately, the discussion has been sidetracked into the minutiae of celestial sex and reproduction once again, and, though this is surely a more diverting question than the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin, it takes us far afield from the intended topic, which is the unconscionable suffering caused by Smith's polygamy practices and doctrines in this world.

It is unconscionable. I wish the good men of the church (because the women don't matter) would put themselves in our shoes and then do the right thing. Speak up, say it is wrong to burden the women and girls of our church with this. Lincoln was right, "relic of barbarism," etc.

The women of the LDS Church have been purposefully led into such extreme condemnation there could scarcely be any found in the Celestial Kingdom unless childbirth truly covers all.

And God is not a sexual being. He creates only by the word of his power obeyed. Mormon were severely misled in doctrine too. It's almost like they took the Restoration for granted without paying the slightest heed to what Jesus was saying. IDIOTS!

[_Kishkumen]

And God is not a sexual being. He creates only by the word of his power obeyed. Mormon were severely misled in doctrine too. It's almost like they took the Restoration for granted without paying the slightest heed to what Jesus was saying. IDIOTS!

I respect your doctrinal independence, Nightlion.

[_Nightlion]

And God is not a sexual being. He creates only by the word of his power obeyed. Mormon were severely misled in doctrine too. It's almost like they took the Restoration for granted without paying the slightest heed to what Jesus was saying. IDIOTS!

I respect your doctrinal independence, Nightlion.

That's really nice for someone to say, thanks.

[_Choyo Chagas]

And God is not a sexual being. He creates only by the word of his power obeyed. Mormon were severely misled in doctrine too. It's almost like they took the Restoration for granted without paying the slightest heed to what Jesus was saying. IDIOTS!

I respect your doctrinal independence, Nightlion.

That's really nice for someone to say, thanks.

apparently, kishkumen has forgotten put this smilie:
doctrinal independence - for me - does mean something against official doctrine of LDS (which is, by the way, undefined)

[_Choyo Chagas]

nope

I've had a chance to re-think your post. Either you, as a male and god of your own harem (you can specify the number of wives you'd like to have) either have to be getting your wives pregnant every 15 seconds (And what a MAN you must be, to be able to get a new erection every 15 seconds!!!!)

- -

nope

Otherwise, you as god of your own world, would never have any time left over for listening to prayers or taking care of the planet you own.

- -

[_Gadianton]

And now, even today, the descendants of Joseph's victims feel compelled to sanctify Joseph's crimes, his acts of rape, perpetrated personally or through agents, that were dressed up in theological garb.

I feel no guilt over my belief in Mormonism nor my acceptance of polygamy as a doctrine revealed from God.

I'm not sure that's correct. To be honest, I'm not sure I fully grasp all the nuance of the Reverend's words, but I can offer my interpretation. There were a handful of cog-dis moments as an uber Chapel Mormon and a couple of those came from discussions from my dad. He was as Chapel-Mormon as they come and one of the best men I've known. He would never put a cold shoulder to anyone's suffering. His ideas in abstract could seem reprehensible to the modern mind, but never applied in anything but kind ways in practice. That's a preface. He took the opportunity to teach me some deep doctrine one day and brought up Nancy Rigdon. He seemed offended by Nancy's disrespect for the prophet and triumphant in Smith's moral relativism letter telling her a thing or two. His face glowed and moved to laughter imagining how unable to respond Nancy must have been to the prophet's inspired rebuke. I learned about 5 things that evening I was totally unprepared to learn at that age.

I see the Reverend as saying that atrocities must be inverted into sanctified acts, to put them beyond question -- out of bounds of scrutiny. The fact JHBPROF doesn't "feel guilt" is exactly the point. My dad didn't feel guilt either; it's the guilt of otherwise good people that turns Joseph Smith's crimes into a sacrament. There really is no middle ground, the very possibility that Joseph Smith was doing something questionable with the women he sought brings the entire house of cards down.

[_grindael]

Doctrine revealed from God? Really?

Jo "married" and then screwed two women who were sisters, who lived in his house without the knowledge of his bona fide wife. Then, when she found out and rebelled against this heinous behavior, Jo went to the girls and said, Sorry, gals, but it's all over. He then shook their hands and told them to get lost. He never spoke with them again. Repeat, ad nauseam dozens of times.

This is from God?

[_huckelberry]

Don't forget that the 7000 years of recorded history featuring the population of the Lord to date only took a week of the Lord's time.
That would make a 9 month earthly pregnancy only take about 0.018 of a day or 15.55200 seconds in the Lord's time.

Why not employ the clever system established on this planet where the children reproduce more children themselves so that in a shorter time millions of children are resulting from millions of parental couples?

[_Kishkumen]

I'm not sure that's correct. To be honest, I'm not sure I fully grasp all the nuance of the Reverend's words, but I can offer my interpretation. There were a handful of cog-dis moments as an uber Chapel Mormon and a couple of those came from discussions from my dad. He was as Chapel-Mormon as they come and one of the best men I've known. He would never put a cold shoulder to anyone's suffering. His ideas in abstract could seem reprehensible to the modern mind, but never applied in anything but kind ways in practice. That's a preface. He took the opportunity to teach me some deep doctrine one day and brought up Nancy Rigdon. He seemed offended by Nancy's disrespect for the prophet and triumphant in Smith's moral relativism letter telling her a thing or two. His face glowed and moved to laughter imagining how unable to respond Nancy must have been to the prophet's inspired rebuke. I learned about 5 things that evening I was totally unprepared to learn at that age.

I see the Reverend as saying that atrocities must be inverted into sanctified acts, to put them beyond question -- out of bounds of scrutiny. The fact JHBPROF doesn't "feel guilt" is exactly the point. My dad didn't feel guilt either; it's the guilt of otherwise good people that turns Joseph Smith's crimes into a sacrament. There really is no middle ground, the very possibility that Joseph Smith was doing something questionable with the women he sought brings the entire house of cards down.

Very lucidly expressed, Dean Robbers.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

I see the Reverend as saying that atrocities must be inverted into sanctified acts, to put them beyond question -- out of bounds of scrutiny. The fact JHBPROF doesn't "feel guilt" is exactly the point. My dad didn't feel guilt either; it's the guilt of otherwise good people that turns Joseph Smith's crimes into a sacrament. There really is no middle ground, the very possibility that Joseph Smith was doing something questionable with the women he sought brings the entire house of cards down.

I think this is the thing faithful types are missing. They're willfully supporting criminal behavior by sanctioning it and will eventually be expected to participate in the crime. Once they've made the leap by approving criminal behavior it's a very small step to take part in it. You become an active participant. This is why normal people would look at a Mormon apologist and think he or she is immoral.

- Doc