Falling out between Dehlin and Kate Kelly?

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_Jersey Girl
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Re: Falling out between Dehlin and Kate Kelly?

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Rosebud wrote:Anyway, I really am done with this drama and going to bed now.


Your crappy and hurtful experiences notwithstanding, I don't think you're quite done with this drama because you keep resurrecting it every time a Dehlin thread is started here.

It's very strange to witness. You throw out a hook, then you expand, you protest that folks are looking for more information and yet, you supply it as if folks here are exploiting you.

I hope you have availed yourself of therapy at some point or will consider it in the future, because it's clear that these experiences aren't behind you. We all encounter seriously crappy experiences in life, we all have a right to move forward free of them yet more wise for having had them.
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_Jersey Girl
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Re: Falling out between Dehlin and Kate Kelly?

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Kishkumen wrote:Being a victim is not a license to be a vindictive asshole. I am done with you. You are a real piece of work.


Yeah, my crappy experience is shittier than your crappy experience. I get it and I see what happened here. I just wanted to acknowledge that I read your personal account and that you were heard.

And I'm sorry for what happened to you.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
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_Jersey Girl
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Re: Falling out between Dehlin and Kate Kelly?

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Rosebud wrote:The other thing that bugs me, Kish, is your need to moralize and summarize. Yet it's done without a synthesis of the issues at play that are unfamiliar to you. Shallow yet confident and authoritative. Like your protection of Nibley and minimization of Martha... done with such suave and confidence that it proves your own lack of comprehension of Martha's perspective.


He's already disclosed incidents of abuse in his own life. Why do you persist in trying to make a contest out of it? Your indifference to his experience simply jumps off the screen and yet, you'd like folks here to take you seriously.

Seriously.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
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_cwald
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Re: Falling out between Dehlin and Kate Kelly?

Post by _cwald »

They are having a field day over at MAD about this latest Dehlin kerfunkle.

Humorously and ironically Calm/Nemesis keeps threatening to ban people from the thread whenever they compare the Dehlin's lack of financial transparency with the LDS church's lack of financial transparency. Classy Calm moderation. She keeps saying she's going to report posters for being off topic. Who is she reporting to? She is the moderator there.
"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby

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_Kishkumen
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Re: Falling out between Dehlin and Kate Kelly?

Post by _Kishkumen »

Jersey Girl wrote:I just wanted to acknowledge that I read your personal account and that you were heard.

And I'm sorry for what happened to you.


Thanks, Jersey. Thankfully it was many, many years ago. But it sure had an indelible impact. Nevertheless, one lives.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Kishkumen
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Re: Falling out between Dehlin and Kate Kelly?

Post by _Kishkumen »

Water Dog wrote:This whole thing is like a victimhood culture popularity contest. This is why I've never had much respect for folks like John Dehlin or Kate Kelly. I don't mean to be insensitive, or some unsophisticated conservative neanderthal or however people perceive me, but it really just seems like muchado about nothing.

**********

Dehin. Yes, his excommunication was stupid and hypocritical and I'll acknowledge fault on the part of the church for it. But candlelight vigils? Press releases in major media outlets? Countless hours of podcasts? Therapy cruises? WTF?

As if any of these people's problems are bigger than anybody else? It would be an insult frankly to even describe these as "first world" problems. I can think of many people that have been "victimized" in far bigger ways, even just as victims of circumstances, accidents and such, and they don't create podcasts so they can spend the rest of their lives dwelling on it and bitching about it.

Like, I learned for the first time recently that a relative of mine was shot in a school shooting as a child back in the 60s. And she still has shrapnel in her body from this. And I had never even heard of it before!!! She doesn't talk about it, and not because it causes her to meltdown, just because she doesn't talk about. Upon being asked she had no hesitation whatsoever. Yep, happened, no big deal. That's her attitude. She joked that there isn't enough metal to set off the detectors in the airport, so not a problem at all. Not a problem! She went to school, raised a family, good and successful kids, etc., a successful happy lady that has improved the world. A role model.

So much time and energy spent on these things, a profound waste of time.


People like your relative have my respect. I like to think that I take the traumas other people suffer seriously and that I try to respond to their suffering with compassion. It is best, I believe, to support people who are suffering and reach out to others for help. For the victim, it is better to get support, if and when you need it, than to let it eat you up. Professional help is also key. That said, I have a great deal of respect for people with the kind of psychological endurance to survive big traumas with such a stoic, survivor's attitude.

To that I would add that I think there is something to the idea that the victimhood phenomenon has exploded to the point where unfortunately it is becoming a trope that many exploit for questionable purposes. The problem with airing grievances like this in a public forum--as I have done in this thread--is that it is almost impossible to separate legitimate and authentic trauma from a public performance undertaken for other reasons. It can also become something like Munchausen syndrome (not exactly, however), where a person feigns/exaggerates victim status in order to get attention and sympathy from others.

And, I guess that I have finally been around long enough to grow somewhat jaded about the "victim of Mormonism" narrative. Notoriety is a tricky thing. A little too tricky for me, so I hang out in the shadows. On the one hand, people look to imitate others in order to understand how they should behave in any situation. That is why the Church stigmatizes apostates. If you can see the apostate, you can imitate the apostate. That is also one reason why we transitioners spend some time studying the exit narratives of others as we are considering an exit. How do you exit? Read the literature.

But, once you have read the literature so many times, and heard so many stories, further repetition begins to taste bad in your mouth. "Ah, yes, I've heard that one many times." It is hard to retain the same kind of unfailing sympathy when you have both heard it a thousand times and also started to see a pattern of people cultivating their celebrity apostate status. It may be a difference of personality, but I can say that my personality does not resonate well with the phenomenon of the celebrity apostate. It is probably better for me not to comment when I see it, but I am feeling uninterested in the latest editions of podcasts of exit stories. No doubt I am not the target audience.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Rosebud
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Re: Falling out between Dehlin and Kate Kelly?

Post by _Rosebud »

Kish,

I'm not reading all of the thread or most of the posts. I don't read all of this board regularly.

I do this out of protection of my own health because I don't have the benefit of what I say only having to do with me personally or not causing major whiplash across the community. This is all very stressful and has been since I met JD. I very much enjoyed and protected my private life before I met him and while I worked with him.

Anyway, while skimming I saw something that implied you have disclosed something personal on this board that I have not responded to appropriately. I don't know what that is, but if this is true, please accept my apologies. Earlier you said something about me caring more about female than male victims and as that makes no sense to me because it is patently false, I just stated that I don't know what you were talking about and assumed you were just trying to Zing me message-board style. (That's a common first response: "You're just anti-male Rosebud," etc.

I still don't know what you were referring to and am still choosing to not read thread unless I hear from someone that JD or the Open Stories Foundation is actually speaking. Please know, though, that I care about all victims equally and have taken actions to protect male victims from those who specifically target them in the past. I am sorry for whatever offense I may have unknowingly caused. It is unfortunate to me that you will likely only ever know the Rosebud who posts here as this board is a very small and poorly representational fraction of me.

But that is all a message board really can be, no?

Anyway, apologies for what I may have insensitively missed in my attempt to keep my own stress down.
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_Jersey Girl
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Re: Falling out between Dehlin and Kate Kelly?

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Rosebud wrote:Kish,

I'm not reading all of the thread or most of the posts. I don't read all of this board regularly.

I do this out of protection of my own health because I don't have the benefit of what I say only having to do with me personally or not causing major whiplash across the community. This is all very stressful and has been since I met JD. I very much enjoyed and protected my private life before I met him and while I worked with him.

Anyway, while skimming I saw something that implied you have disclosed something personal on this board that I have not responded to appropriately. I don't know what that is, but if this is true, please accept my apologies. Earlier you said something about me caring more about female than male victims and as that makes no sense to me because it is patently false, I just stated that I don't know what you were talking about and assumed you were just trying to Zing me message-board style. (That's a common first response: "You're just anti-male Rosebud," etc.

I still don't know what you were referring to and am still choosing to not read thread unless I hear from someone that JD or the Open Stories Foundation is actually speaking. Please know, though, that I care about all victims equally and have taken actions to protect male victims from those who specifically target them in the past. I am sorry for whatever offense I may have unknowingly caused. It is unfortunate to me that you will likely only ever know the Rosebud who posts here as this board is a very small and poorly representational fraction of me.

But that is all a message board really can be, no?

Anyway, apologies for what I may have insensitively missed in my attempt to keep my own stress down.


I really cannot endure this one second longer. You have not protected your own health and your claim of ignorance is simply a passive aggressive self serving dismissal to avoid taking and responsibility for your own comments here in relation to others.

There's nothing else to call it and your lengthy post doesn't change that obvious fact.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_RockSlider
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Re: Falling out between Dehlin and Kate Kelly?

Post by _RockSlider »

calm has caught the scent of blood ... the key here seems to be about the 'board'
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