Falling out between Dehlin and Kate Kelly?

[_Rosebud]

Thank you for expressing care and concern. I promise I am okay now. Well, not completely recovered, because I never will be. I never imagined in my wildest dreams this kind of thing would happen to me before it did.

But these things happen to a lot of people (well, minus the public figure manipulating an authoritarian institution and tens of thousands of people part). It's not rare. People cope with it all sorts of ways. It's only fair to allow me my way and to stand with me if you choose. I see no reason to stand against or advise (although there's no point in trying to stop anyone). Your advice speaks about you, not me. People chastising or shaming speaks about them, not me. My voice is my own.

The hardest part of this ordeal was watching in silence as he sought to intimidate, deceive and control. During those hours I made up my mind to do what I could to protect others from the same. If I choose to do that now, let me. I take advantage of the moments as they come.

In a nutshell: It is my right to speak and my right to protect others. And this little message board drama is so small, Tater. The world is a big place with big things happening. Why should I, or any of us, fear speaking when the time is right? Dr. Shades is the only person across all of the Mormon Internet who will allow me this. He must not be afraid of John.

If I wanted a bigger drama than a few threads on the backside of the Internet, I could have made it happen. But what good would that do? Hundreds have tried to take him down that way before. No good. Revolutions need to occur and those take cultivating. Allow me to do my part, for my good. Don't try to take that away from me like others have because you've convinced yourself you know what's best for me. I am the only expert in me just like you are the only expert in you.

But no fear, I will go away when the time is wrong. I think I've proven that. There is no happiness here.

-I am glad the popcorn eaters are gone.- I don't really see the point of the intellectual commentary, either. But S and K will do what they like to do.

[_Rosebud]

And please try to be honest to yourself, and fair. Point fingers in the right direction, even when it's hard. I am not the originator of the drama.

It's obvious who that is.

[_Tator]

Rosebud no one is trying to silence you. Myself and many others are concerned about you we see things from the outside looking in. My exit was at a different time and place but I see similarities in our methods until I got professional help then I changed how I responded. I am a proponent of counseling, professional not JD style. If I had not gotten professional help I know I would have been dead from my own hand long ago.

JD in my opinion is not worth your attention. JD and his followers will take of themselves with or without you. Bless you and carry on as you feel fit but it is painful for me watch.

[_Meadowchik]

They are having a field day over at MAD about this latest Dehlin kerfunkle.

Humorously and ironically Calm/Nemesis keeps threatening to ban people from the thread whenever they compare the Dehlin's lack of financial transparency with the LDS church's lack of financial transparency. Classy Calm moderation. She keeps saying she's going to report posters for being off topic. Who is she reporting to? She is the moderator there.

Calm and Juliann are turning into jokes over there. Their "we're not the mods here" charade is ridiculous and anyone can see how fast they gang up and ban posters, get things posted in red (right in their posts but claim it's the "mods" not them). Even other faithful posters are questioning why these 2 get immediate action from mods when no one else can get mods to respond or even get ahold of them.

That thread that Calm started on Dehlin breaks board rules and doesn't even belong where she's posted it (but flippantly dares anyone to report it to the mods who objects). Yeah, report it to HER

That thread is a shameful character attack and it would have been locked in seconds if it was against anyone else or was posted by someone who doesn't moderate and control the comments by banning anyone who disagrees with Calm and Juliann.

I watched my ban from that thread in real time. Juliann posts that she will start reporting the derails and within minutes, less than ten, maybe five, I was banned from the thread. No mod warning, that was it.

There certainly wasn't time there for a mod to receive the report and then go through the thread to evaluate a derail and execute a ban, in my opinion.

It's poor forum practice for mods to use anonymous screennames, as in, not their participant handles. It's not transparent and it worsens imbalanced dialogue and is, of course, disingenuous.

The quality of the place has degraded, even if there are cool peeps there.

[_Tator]

And please try to be honest to yourself, and fair. Point fingers in the right direction, even when it's hard. I am not the originator of the drama.

It's obvious who that is.

I am being honest. I am addressing you and the drama on this thread not JD's drama in the past, present or future. I don't give a rats ass about JD my comments are to you, about you because many here care about you as I do.

I have bailed from the thread and again I wish blessings to you.

[_Rosebud]

Rosebud no one is trying to silence you. Myself and many others are concerned about you we see things from the outside looking in. My exit was at a different time and place but I see similarities in our methods until I got professional help then I changed how I responded. I am a proponent of counseling, professional not JD style. If I had not gotten professional help I know I would have been dead from my own hand long ago.

JD in my opinion is not worth your attention. JD and his followers will take of themselves with or without you. Bless you and carry on as you feel fit but it is painful for me watch.

Thank you, Tator, for sincerely caring. Please don't watch if it causes you pain.

For my record, I will add something new.

In 2012, when JD started his drama and I knew his plans to do what he has now done, he silenced me. I bravely stood up to him because I cared about LGBT Mormons and got some of the program's away from him. The mistake I made the was to not push the Open Stories Foundation harder. I recommended they allow him to stay. I was too weak, then, to see clearly.

I started putting my life back together. I hoped JD would stabalize and come to his senses. Instead, he continued on with his manipulation of his SP, the "faith reconstruction" podcast and then.... well, you've now seen all the rest.

At that point, when he went public and hurt so many people to protect himself, I almost didn't survive. But that changed when I got an attorney to help me create documentation. I got mental health help, too, but the medical model isn't Roy set up to help people in this situation. My "diagnosis?": "adjustment disorder." In other words, I was dealing with two dangerous men (both JD and my ex) who were both full of crap.

But the attorney helped me more than anyone. It wasn't that I was "unwell" (although I see no point in any human claiming sanity), it's that I was powerless. Getting the attorney and creating records gave me back my power and helped me recover.

Then, the law protected JD because the government protects small businesses. Even though I had managed hundreds of volunteers and several contract employees, the contract employees weren't making much. In the State of New Hampshire, in order to get a full investigation, there needed to be 6 paid employees. There was a question over the 6th because he only made a few paltry dollars as an affiliated podcaster.

I decided, then, to withdraw my claim, file a document recording what happened, and then continue my record here because I never signed a non-disclosure. I knew this would help prevent JD from successfully using his "Rosebud is crazy" tactics. It made a big difference.

I am sharing this part of the story now, so you will understand the significance to me of my record and its significance in my recovery.

We all take our own journeys. This is mine. Projecting your journey on to it is natural, but it doesn't necessarily apply.

I have now seen enough of the profession of psychology to have little confidence in the medical model. Ironically, I think the research coming out about coaching is stronger. It takes the approach that a person is whole and has the ability to discover empowerment, rather than sick or in need of treatment or intervention. I don't know what you know about the profession of psychology, but historically speaking, psychologists copied the medical model because they wanted as much credibility as physicians. There are many who think that, overall, that approach has done more harm than good in mental health. It's great that it has elicited a deep body of knowledge about pathology, but what about the rest of the population?

In other words, assume wellness and the capacity for growth and change, not brokenness. In yourself as well as me and others.

So, ironically, I think the profession of true coaching (with education and certification, hopefully states will start licensing coaches too) would do exMos more good than the psychology model. It's based in Human Development rather than pathology.

ExMos are not broken. The human experience is not all about "disease," and "fixing things." I am not broken just because bad things have happened to me. And JD shouldn't be a coach or a psychologist.

But yes, JD is a waste of time. I'm here for the moment because people are cottoning on. Yet this explaining myself is starting to eat into more important projects as well. Sigh. Enough explaining. I'll go back to watching and challenging.

My record is good for me.

But still, thank you.

[Guest]

I watched my ban from that thread in real time. Juliann posts that she will start reporting the derails and within minutes, less than ten, maybe five, I was banned from the thread. No mod warning, that was it.

There certainly wasn't time there for a mod to receive the report and then go through the thread to evaluate a derail and execute a ban, in my opinion.

It's poor forum practice for mods to use anonymous screennames, as in, not their participant handles. It's not transparent and it worsens imbalanced dialogue and is, of course, disingenuous.

The quality of the place has degraded, even if there are cool peeps there.

I agree. The way they handle the moderating is pretty ridiculous (with the scary names and avatars trying to strike terror in the members....and they do rule using threats and fear). Why not just be out in the open with who the moderators are like other forums?

Calm owns the board (Nemesis) and I think she can log in and use any of the moderator identities (but usually uses Nemesis). She's pretty obvious if you watch her posting style (she shows up, posts a few times on a thread stating disapproval of the topic or some of the posts and then minutes later it's locked or posters are banned, for example).

Juliann usually moderates using the Hestia screen name (she's obvious because Hestia uses many of the exact same phrases that Juliann uses when posting). But she may use other ID's too.

The two together are pretty disturbing to watch as they enjoy and abuse the power along with really treating members poorly. At least Juliann is openly nasty all the time where Calm hides it and takes on a different personality when she moderates. Pretty comical and juvenile really.

[_Rosebud]

Rosebud, observation, whenever a little pressure gets applied in your direction, you respond by saying you're going to leave.... and then don't leave. Without counting you said it was your last post, what, like half a dozen times at least? Yet here you are, still. And this isn't me asking you to leave. Never had that goal. I was merely challenging pretty "out there" comments, which, at face value, are hard to believe. The point though is your behavior pattern doesn't come across as stable. And that doesn't make your claims false, but it's a hit against your credibility. for what it's worth, my observation of Dehlin's behavior is the same. He gets sucked into Facebook rants, bans huge numbers of people from commenting (including people like myself who have never commented on his page suggesting that he spends a lot of time stalking through the social media network and coming up with enemy lists), has a legion of acolytes that control /r/exmormon on his behalf, and so on. A lot of immature behavior on all sides. When you say you're done though, if you actually exercised some discipline and stayed "done," it would lend more credibility. At this point you've hung around for so long though, what difference does it make...

Water Dog, I am going to keep my pressure up until I am done doing so. Apologies for any confusion. I will leave when A.I. am ready. Do not assume patterns on message boards to mean more than they do. Keep in mind intentions, schedules, changes of context, new information, bloggernacle reactions, etc.

And please try to remember the constraints of this kind of communication. It does no one any good to see too much meaning in the format.

[_Rosebud]

(And I appreciate you caring about my credibility. Don't worry. I have enough.)

[_cwald]

But that changed when I got an attorney to help me create documentation... decided, then, to withdraw my claim, file a document recording what happened...because I never signed a non-disclosure

Why not share this kind of evidence to back up your accusations?