Falling out between Dehlin and Kate Kelly?

[_Rosebud]

I've been trying to get Rosebud to do this for two years Craig, so good luck. Two years!

Its very frustrating...she keep talking in circles without ever getting to the crux of the matter...I'm hoping that she addressees my 4 questions in detail and we can all move on...

Craig. I already have. If you will read the posts I have already made, you will find the answers. It is not my job to repetitively provide the same information again and again to people who keep claiming they don't have it. This board is full of information. I've got somewhere close to 500 posts now. It's a treasure trove.

If you can ask me a question I haven't answered, proving that you've at least taken time to demonstrate that I haven't answered it, I will comply if it is in my best interests.

[_Rosebud]

Also, if anyone feels they have asked a question I haven't already answered on this board and has done the research to prove that I haven't answered it (rather than continually telling me I haven't answered when I have), and I miss that question, will you please PM me? I am not keeping up with all the posts, but that does not also mean that I am intentionally ignoring questions that are conscientiously asked.

[_Craig Paxton]

Its very frustrating...she keep talking in circles without ever getting to the crux of the matter...I'm hoping that she addressees my 4 questions in detail and we can all move on...

Craig. I already have. If you will read the posts I have already made, you will find the answers. It is not my job to repetitively provide the same information again and again to people who keep claiming they don't have it. This board is full of information. I've got somewhere close to 500 posts now. It's a treasure trove.

If you can ask me a question I haven't answered, proving that you've at least taken time to demonstrate that I haven't answered it, I will comply if it is in my best interests.

Well you owe me nothing...within the context of this thread I have re read everything you've posted...thus my questions seeking clarifications...that you chose not to clarify that is your right...I am only left with muddy waters.

Thanks for your time and I do wish you nothing but the best in life...I hope you heal.

NOTE: In the time you've taken to reply to my request to answer my earlier 4 questions but instead chose not to...those questions could have been answered...so yes I am left being frustrated and we never get to the bottom of this rabbit hole.

[_Craig Paxton]

Craig and others,

I am not sure if this is your purpose but it appears like you want to minimize rosebud's experience, why?

Dehlin has numerous complaints from individuals claiming he took advantage of them.

Rosebud's situation might be a little different in the sense of the emotional affair stuff but dehlin also went for the jugular when it came to projects/groups he hijacked.

Do you feel relieved that no sex happened? Does that make it easier for you to dismiss rosebud?

Rosebud spelled it out that john f'ed with her head while she was very vulnerable. Also, she made it clear that john set up groups/podcast in a manner that screwed over the talent.. She raised concerns and others raised concerns and John booted them and then viciously attached their characters. It's a pretty screwed up deal to do what he did after these individuals poured so much time and energy into these projects.


It's rather funny, a few of us were on here for several years warning that dehlin was up to some ____ and most dismissed. it should be interesting to see what this situation looks like five years from now.

Sorry I am typing from a phone, it's a mess.

I am not dismissing Rosebud at all...merely attempting unsuccessfully to get to the bottom of her charges

[_Kishkumen]

Dehlin has numerous complaints from individuals claiming he took advantage of them.

Rosebud's situation might be a little different in the sense of the emotional affair stuff but dehlin also went for the jugular when it came to projects/groups he hijacked.

Do you feel relieved that no sex happened? Does that make it easier for you to dismiss rosebud?

Rosebud spelled it out that john f'ed with her head while she was very vulnerable. Also, she made it clear that john set up groups/podcast in a manner that screwed over the talent.. She raised concerns and others raised concerns and John booted them and then viciously attached their characters. It's a pretty screwed up deal to do what he did after these individuals poured so much time and energy into these projects.

It's rather funny, a few of us were on here for several years warning that dehlin was up to some BS and most dismissed. it should be interesting to see what this situation looks like five years from now.

As long as people spend time getting to the bottom of what happened, they will be unsatisfied that they are not getting there. I recommend that everyone drop it. (Of course, I know I will be ignored and I am fine with that.) If someone wants to come here to complain about JD, so be it. It's a free country, but it is also clear to me that nothing is going to be resolved, no matter how many questions are asked. JD could in fact be very culpable, and yet we are never going to get the kind of evidence that would reassure us that one party is guilty beyond question. It's the nature of the beast as much as it is the nature of the participants.

I will note that it is one thing be a victim, and then it is another to turn that victimhood into a crusade to make sure that no one else is a victim. On some level the crusade is about the crusader. Being a crusader helps a person recover a sense of power after being made to feel powerless. (You can trace this back to the Crusades themselves, which were partly about recovering face after the realization that the Turks actually did control access to the Holy Land.) The only way to satisfy a crusader is to validate the crusade. So, validate away if you want to do so, understanding of course that doing so requires conceding that the goal of the crusade is valid.

I don't. And I don't believe that, for all his flaws--and they are plentiful, I am sure--JD is a "dangerous man," the kind of person who really merits being the target of someone else's endless crusade. I believe he is the kind of guy who overreaches, makes mistakes, gets into messy situations, and does not handle them all that gracefully. I have seen that unfold countless times over the past decade.

[_cwald]

..thus my questions seeking clarifications...that you chose not to clarify that is your right...I am only left with muddy waters...

The end.

You have just summed up two years and 500+ Rosebud posts ranting about Dehlin.


I think this thread has at least been the best and most clear. Let me see if I can come up with some cliff notes.

1. Rosebud married too young in life to a guy who was a TBM autistic douche bag.

2. Rosebud had a faith crisis and got sucked into the MS/Dehlin cult.

3. JD used his charisma and power against an already unstable and emotional turmoil Rosebud to use her for podcasting, making himself some dough, and getting attention from the exmoworld.

3. Rosebud fell in love with John Dehlin.

4. They had an affair where there was some necking and petting but no sexual intercourse, an "emotional affair" and Rosebud fell in love John Dehlin even more.

5. JD suggested they get it on and do more and suggested Rosebud should become his polygamous wife.

6. Rosebud said no.

7. JD got butt hurt and ditched her and cut her out of the Open Stories Foundation world, stealing her intellectual property and ruined her name and slandered her within the exmo world and perhaps her professional world. Also emotionally "raping" an already vulnerable person in the process. (I'm not making light of this and I believe you and feel bad for you.)

8. This caused Rosebud to go into even greater tumult, playing haveck on her marriage.

9. Rosebud lost her job because of the trauma after the affair and breakup had.

10. Rosebud got a lawyer and has evidence and documentation that proves JD is a bad guy, and all this true but she won't share it even though she didn't sign a nondisclosure agreement. (We really don't know what the lawyer was all about. It could have been a sexual harassment, or intellectual property dispute or a restraining order...all of these things have been hinted at but Rosebud refuses to disclose this information. Only that she has evidence and documentation that would really make JD look bad)

11. Douche bag husband used Rosebud's "affair" with Dehlin against her in the divorce. JD may have had more to do with the divorce but we are left in muddy waters about his role in that.

12. JD lied to his SP and the the entire exmo world, and duped everyone into thinking he was truly repentant and trying to help people, when it was all about fame and glory and building his own cult following.

13. Rosebud life kind of fell apart because of JD's emotional abuse and manipulation, and JD's life appears to be thriving but it is all a lie.

14. JD continued to manipulate and criticized Rosebud and minimizes her concerns and accusations against him and the Open Stories Foundation.

15. Rosebud comes on MDB and warns us about the dangers of JD and how he uses people to his advantage.

16. We believe her that JD and the Open Stories Foundation has some serious flaws and problems and that drama follows JD, and empathize that he "emotionally raped" a vulnerable person, but ask for clarifications on some of her "muddy water" comments and accusations.

17. Rosebud gets upset because we misinterpreted something and tells us to do our own research and that she doesn't want to talk about it anymore and please no more questions.

18. 500 post later...repeat cycle.


Is that pretty close?

[_Lemmie]

Personal opinion, but I think there are many cultural factors that play into the prominence and participation levels in MLM's and fraudulent businesses. Yeah, it doesn’t help that Mormons are taught that having a good feeling about something is a valid way to determine if they should trust someone or some course of action. But they probably include a wide spectrum of factors including the mundane such as the higher percentage of single income larger families looking for a way a stay at home mom can make a buck or take on a flexible second job.

Personally I think the cultural pressure that associates prosperity with righteousness where being a self-made success is fetishized in General Conferences is more influential than the unfortunate influence of Moroni’s promise on Mormon epistemology. Mormons are practically commanded by God to idolized successful males elevated to having control of their eternal happiness whose twice yearly message often focuses on stories of earthly prosperity coming from putting God first. It’s not general priesthood meeting without a story about the latest prospect for the major league passing up a lucrative contract to go on a mission. What would GC be without a story or two reminding people God blesses those who love Him, usually in the form of business success or personal achievement? Missionaries are trained to equate success with righteousness, per my wife there were untold number of lessons taught in her teen years about the importance of finding a husband who was righteous and able to really provide for their families. The culture isn’t subtle about its prosperity gospel-like beliefs. The Book of Mormon could almost replace “A Second Witness of Jesus Christ” with, “An Allegory for How Pride Will Destroy You While Love of God Will Be Manifested in Untold Riches and Life Fulfillment”. Utah supposedly has the highest levels of entrepreneurs per capita on top of all of its other distinctions, good or bad. Yet how many people REALLY have million dollar ideas bopping around in their heads just needing the right opportunity to be converted into a new, thriving business?

Whether DoTerra or the Church, the message is the same: Be righteous, and sell sell sell! Riches will follow!

And this is reinforced with every sacrament meeting or GC story where paying one's tithing miraculously leads to financial blessings reinforces that notion that looking for a miracle is a perfectly acceptable path to financial gain, and getting a prompting from the spirit is sufficient due diligence when evaluating such miracles. On the other side, it gives a con the perfect path to convince buyers that "sounding too good to be true" is simply the secular version of a tithing miracle.

[_Lemmie]

I will note that it is one thing be a victim, and then it is another to turn that victimhood into a crusade to make sure that no one else is a victim. On some level the crusade is about the crusader. Being a crusader helps a person recover a sense of power after being made to feel powerless. (You can trace this back to the Crusades themselves, which were partly about recovering face after the realization that the Turks actually did control access to the Holy Land.) The only way to satisfy a crusader is to validate the crusade. So, validate away if you want to do so, understanding of course that doing so requires conceding that the goal of the crusade is valid.

I don't.

That's a fascinating and extremely compelling comparison of Rosebud's efforts here to a crusade. It's sad to me to see a woman link her professional life to such an individualized personal crusade; in my opinion at best it significantly erodes her perceived professionalism, at worst it will be interpreted as a vendetta by a dangerously unstable person. There are enough challenges for a professional woman related to gender issues, voluntarily adding this to your pile is just not rational.

[_Lemmie]

..thus my questions seeking clarifications...that you chose not to clarify that is your right...I am only left with muddy waters...

The end.

You have just summed up two years and 500+ Rosebud posts ranting about Dehlin.


I think this thread has at least been the best and most clear. Let me see if I can come up with some cliff notes.

1. Rosebud married too young in life to a guy who was a TBM autistic douche bag.

2. Rosebud had a faith crisis and got sucked into the MS/Dehlin cult.

3. JD used his charisma and power against an already unstable and emotional turmoil Rosebud to use her for podcasting, making himself some dough, and getting attention from the exmoworld.

3. Rosebud fell in love with John Dehlin.

4. They had an affair where there was some necking and petting but no sexual intercourse, an "emotional affair" and Rosebud fell in love John Dehlin even more.

5. JD suggested they get it on and do more and suggested Rosebud should become his polygamous wife.

6. Rosebud said no.

7. JD got butt hurt and ditched her and cut her out of the Open Stories Foundation world, stealing her intellectual property and ruined her name and slandered her within the exmo world and perhaps her professional world. Also emotionally "raping" an already vulnerable person in the process. (I'm not making light of this and I believe you and feel bad for you.)

8. This caused Rosebud to go into even greater tumult, playing haveck on her marriage.

9. Rosebud lost her job because of the trauma after the affair and breakup had.

10. Rosebud got a lawyer and has evidence and documentation that proves JD is a bad guy, and all this true but she won't share it even though she didn't sign a nondisclosure agreement. (We really don't know what the lawyer was all about. It could have been a sexual harassment, or intellectual property dispute or a restraining order...all of these things have been hinted at but Rosebud refuses to disclose this information. Only that she has evidence and documentation that would really make JD look bad)

11. Douche bag husband used Rosebud's "affair" with Dehlin against her in the divorce. JD may have had more to do with the divorce but we are left in muddy waters about his role in that.

12. JD lied to his SP and the the entire exmo world, and duped everyone into thinking he was truly repentant and trying to help people, when it was all about fame and glory and building his own cult following.

13. Rosebud life kind of fell apart because of JD's emotional abuse and manipulation, and JD's life appears to be thriving but it is all a lie.

14. JD continued to manipulate and criticized Rosebud and minimizes her concerns and accusations against him and the Open Stories Foundation.

15. Rosebud comes on MDB and warns us about the dangers of JD and how he uses people to his advantage.

16. We believe her that JD and the Open Stories Foundation has some serious flaws and problems and that drama follows JD, and empathize that he "emotionally raped" a vulnerable person, but ask for clarifications on some of her "muddy water" comments and accusations.

17. Rosebud gets upset because we misinterpreted something and tells us to do our own research and that she doesn't want to talk about it anymore and please no more questions.

18. 500 post later...repeat cycle.


Is that pretty close?

Sounds pretty darn perfect, cwald, thanks!

[_Lemmie]

Is that pretty close?

Kind of awesome, really. Since I did poke Rosebud earlier in the thread, I'll stir the pot a little more by acknowledging Rosebud's point that the specific detail of intercourse is not necessary to make an affair IMHO. She's been making the point that there is a division of interpretation that falls very squarely along male/female gender lines.

re: the sentence I bolded, if you don't mind my asking, what does that mean?

So, it counts. Affair happened.

Totally agree.