Joseph Smith & a LITERAL 3500 Year Old Abraham Autograph

[_cwald]

Actually it doesn’t matter a lot which way you look at it. You can start with the Book of Abraham and gain a witness of its truth, and then move on to the Book of Mormon; or you could start with the Book of Mormon. Normally people start with the Book of Mormon. Either way you get to the same place in the end—that Joseph Smith was a true prophet, and restored God’s true Church on earth.

Or

Actually it doesn’t matter a lot which way you look at it. You can start with the Book of Abraham and gain a witness that it is a fraud, and then move on to the Book of Mormon; or you could start with the Book of Mormon. Normally people start with the Book of Mormon. Either way you get to the same place in the end—that Joseph Smith was a fraud, a false prophet, and started a cult/church on earth

[_Shulem]

You forgot to say its also possible that Joseph Smith was wrong. Its also possible he is a false prophet. Its also possible you are wrong. The evidence shows all this, so it is very possible.

He refuses to answer the question because he's brainwashed by the cult and cannot reason or apply logic like a rational person. His testimony bearing is all he has to sustain him and his make believe friend, the holy ghost. There is a certain amount of entertainment for us in witnessing this kind of behavior seeing we know better.

He's incapable of providing rational explanations about why Joseph Smith's Explanations of Facsimile No. 3 are completely wrong. He even considers the idea that modern Egyptology may be completely wrong and that Joseph Smith may have actually translated correctly. But we know the figure Isis is really a woman, not a man as Joseph Smith thought. Isis does not have a penis as Joseph Smith and zerinus would have us believe.

1. There is no king's name in the writing of the Facsimile, PERIOD.
2. Isis is a woman, PERIOD.
3. Maat is a woman, PERIOD.
4. Anubis is a god, PERIOD.

etc.

Joseph Smith and zerinus stand rebuked.

[_Shulem]

Facsimile No. 3 Fig. 2.

This is Isis, a chief goddess of Egypt. Joseph Smith said the character is a king of Egypt, a man. My question for zerinus:

Do you believe this person has a penis or a vagina? Just answer the question!

[ ] Penis
[ ] Vagina

[_Shulem]

Facsimile No. 3 Fig. 4.

This is Maat, a goddess of Egypt. Joseph Smith said the character is a boy. My question for zerinus is:

Do you believe this person has a penis or a vagina? Just answer the question!

[ ] Penis
[ ] Vagina

[_Shulem]

Zerinus, answer the question:

DO GIRLS HAVE A PENIS AND TESTICLES?

[ ] Yes
[ ] No

[_Starbuck]

My holy ghost has born witness to me that that the Book of Abraham as produced by Joseph Smith is a fraud. My ghost beats everyone's ghosts.

On another note, I haven't read Philo's document yet, I just scrolled through looking for pictures, but does it address the issue of KEP papers and the actual caractor that was claimed to be the signature of Abraham? What does the claimed signature translate to? I am being a bit lazy, so if the document addresses this issue just let me know.

[_Shulem]

ISIS GODDESS OF EGYPT


The false revelation of Joseph Smith identified the lovely goddess Isis of Facsimile No. 3 as that of a mortal man, a mere king. Joseph Smith's inability to read the writing on the papyrus coupled with his utter ignorance of ancient Egypt was a recipe for disaster in exposing himself as a charlatan. The spirit and lies of Mormonism will never prevail. The Ghost of Mormonism is nothing more than the shadowy perceptions of the human mind pretending to divine things which it cannot comprehend.

I rebuke you, Joseph Smith, in the name of Egyptology and by the authority of Isis, goddess of Egypt and the divine wife of Osiris who sits atop the throne of Facsimile No. 3. I rebuke you Joseph Smith for committing blasphemy against the sacred temple of Egypt and desecrating the rites and ceremonies of the Egyptian gods by usurping Jehovah's Abraham upon the divine Egyptian throne. Your blasphemy against ancient Egypt is duly noted and you are forever held accountable for your lies. The LDS church today is accountable for publishing and maintaining these lies which desecrate the sacred memory of the ancient Egyptians.

Shame on the Mormon church! Shame on LDS apologists for defending the lies of Joseph Smith and making a mockery of things sacred to the ancient Egyptians.

[_Shulem]

I WISH, President Monson would adopt the thinking that zerinus has expressed in this thread.

I WISH, President Monson would make a formal declaration in General Conference and repeat the very words zerinus has said in this thread.

THEN, watch the world NEWS and various organizations around the world hit Mormonism so hard that it will drop to its knees and come to a grinding halt. Watch Mormonism become the laughing stalk of the world and its missionaries gathered up and sent home in disgrace.

It has been a pleasure watching zerinus say the very things that would bring financial ruination to his church if he was the Church President. Listen to all the doors slam and the financial institution of the church sink into despair.

I WISH, zerinus was the President of the LDS church.

[_zerinus]

He's incapable of providing rational explanations about why Joseph Smith's Explanations of Facsimile No. 3 are completely wrong. He even considers the idea that modern Egyptology may be completely wrong and that Joseph Smith may have actually translated correctly.

That is right, that is what I believe. Just because they are called “Egyptologists,” it does not automatically follow that they must be right and Joseph Smith wrong. They may have discovered some truths about Egyptian hieroglyphics, but that does not mean that they have discovered everything. I think it is perfectly possible that Joseph Smith knew something that they don’t know, or have not yet discovered. Your problem is you start with the assumption that Joseph Smith was false, therefore any discrepancies between him and the Egyptologists must be his fault. You are not willing to countenance the alternative proposition, which is not a logical or necessary assumption.

But we know the figure Isis is really a woman, not a man as Joseph Smith thought. Isis does not have a penis as Joseph Smith and zerinus would have us believe.

How do you know, did you lift up his skirt to find out? There are too many unknown factors. The significance of the hieroglyphics may have changed over time. It could be that what they meant at an earlier time was not the same as what they meant at a later time. To assume that Egyptologists have discovered and figured out everything that there is to be known about ancient Egypt is height of arrogance.

[_Shulem]

Say what you like. The figure which Joseph Smith identifies as the "slave" is not an image of Anubis, nor is it functioning as Anubis in the image that is displayed.

http://www.mormonthink.com/book-of-abraham-issues.htm



True to his 19th-century American point of view, Joseph identified the only "black" person in the drawing as a slave. However, this figure is undoubtedly Anubis, guide of the dead, who is there to support the deceased. He has helped the deceased complete his journey, and assisted him in the use of the spells that were contained in his funeral book. Reuben Hedlock's rendering is not very good, perhaps because of damage to the original papyrus fragment from which he took the drawing, but Anubis is always black, and always has a jackal's head — in fact, you can still make out the pointed dog ear on the top of his head. The words above Anubis read: "Recitation by Anubis, who makes protection(?), foremost of the embalming booth,…"

Reconstructed Facsimile no 3
http://www.edholroyd.information/Smith/Fac3DJN.gif