Water Dog wrote: So here's a example I'm pulling out of my ass. Imagine a boy being raised by a single mom who is herself culturally atypical. Imagine there are no male role models in this kids life, anywhere. Doesn't have a dad. Also doesn't spend any time with grandfathers. Perhaps he hangs out with a ton of women and girls though. It's not hard to come up with scenarios where this kid is going to model the only behavior he sees, which is girly. And then when he goes to school this only compounds. He'll feel weird around the boys, not know how to behave like them. They'll make fun of him. Maybe he starts feeling "attracted" to boys because he is desperately lonely and wants male attention. Then he gets convinced those feelings are sexual in nature even though they aren't, actually. For a while maybe he thinks he's gay. One thing leads to another and this millennial hippie mom has her son convinced he's actually a girl trapped in a boy's body. Time to start popping pills! And then that makes things even worse. Feeling depressed? Oh, well that's because you have a penis still. I've got an idea, let's chop it off! That will solve all your problems.
How old is the boy in your above scenario when he first goes to school?
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
Water Dog wrote:Not saying it to be provocative, but because I flatly disagree with you. I will acknowledge a spectrum that exists among people, sure, but to say that a person is literally born in the wrong body is asinine and not a conclusion that can be supported by real data. It's social "science" gibberish.
Previously, you agreed with Porter's post where the world is divided into male, female, and hermaphrodite. If that is the case in your thinking, please state so and let's talk about it. I'm wiling if you are.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
There she is, and right on schedule. :) If you have hard data to present, just present it.
Why wasn't your data hard?
I asked a question about the quote you presented and its source, but you seem to have left that part out when you quoted me. Here's your quote and link to its source, plus your usual source:
Water Dog wrote:
The hypothesis that gender identity is an innate, fixed property of human beings that is independent of biological sex—that a person might be "a man trapped in a woman’s body" or "a woman trapped in a man’s body"—is not supported by scientific evidence.
<snip> So here's a example I'm pulling out of my ass....
And here is my full comment:
Lemmie wrote::rolleyes:
WaterDog, your quote is from an article in "The New Atlantis." Do you know anything about that journal? Who publishes it, or what their mission statement is? Do you know what type of articles it publishes and what standards are in place for publication? I ask because I am trying to determine whether you are presenting it as a scientific source.
Last edited by Guest on Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Water Dog wrote:I don't care. I don't think we need laws about this. It's not broken, so no need to fix it. Go where you're comfortable but also be respectful of others.
So what is the problem? Let's just allow a Trans man be a man, and a Tarns woman be a woman.
Water Dog wrote: A fake vagina is a fake vagina, no matter how realistic it appears and feels.
Would you say the same about someone with a prosthetic leg?
Jersey Girl wrote:Previously, you agreed with Porter's post where the world is divided into male, female, and hermaphrodite. If that is the case in your thinking, please state so and let's talk about it. I'm wiling if you are.
In a broad sense, yes. I'd rephrase it "male, female, and abnormality." I'm sure there are all manner of abnormalities with a variety of classifications. Such abnormalities are also quite rare, and in the case of the OP, there is no such situation. The man has working equipment with which he fathered many children. I don't dispute that he has mental problems, goes without saying. Which is my point. In a way we're all saying the same thing in different ways. EAllusion talks about people being trapped in the wrong body.... which I'm not convinced of, but even if true for sake of argument, it's just a funny way of saying they have mental problems.
Essay questions: Are children born with ambiguous genitalia one gender trapped in the wrong body, who gets to decide that, why, when, and how?
I invite you to think with me...
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
I've got lots of hard data. If you wanna see it though, we're gonna have to take this over to telestial.
Lemmie, kindly run along and let the adults converse. You never say anything useful but just pick these naggy little fights. There is no burden on me to prove anything here. If you want to substantiate the extraordinary claim that people are born in the wrong body, I'm all ears, but that's your burden to provide extraordinary evidence to support it. And there are other much more reasonable people here already going down that road, so why not let them have a crack at it instead of derailing things?
You are leaving the door wide open for me to make a dirty comeback remark and I try not to do that. Go answer my questions so I don't make an ass of myself.
ETA: Take your time, I need to finish something in real life.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
Water Dog wrote:If you want to substantiate the extraordinary claim that people are born in the wrong body, I'm all ears, but that's your burden to provide extraordinary evidence to support it.
but it doesn't really matter. I am a believer in freedom, let's just let them be what they want to be.
I've got lots of hard data. If you wanna see it though, we're gonna have to take this over to telestial.
Lemmie, kindly run along and let the adults converse. You never say anything useful but just pick these naggy little fights. There is no burden on me to prove anything here. If you want to substantiate the extraordinary claim that people are born in the wrong body, I'm all ears, but that's your burden to provide extraordinary evidence to support it. And there are other much more reasonable people here already going down that road, so why not let them have a crack at it instead of derailing things?
I asked you about the quote YOU posted and its source. Since you seem to be taking ideas from the pages of this article, it is entirely relevant to ask about it, its scientific relevance and acceptance within the scientific community, who published it, and why.
WaterDog wrote:
The hypothesis that gender identity is an innate, fixed property of human beings that is independent of biological sex—that a person might be "a man trapped in a woman’s body" or "a woman trapped in a man’s body"—is not supported by scientific evidence.
Jersey Girl wrote:Essay questions: Are children born with ambiguous genitalia one gender trapped in the wrong body, who gets to decide that, why, when, and how?
I invite you to think with me...
This is a tangent, because, as stated the OP isn't in such a category. In situations like this however, I don't know. I'm sure that depends on the particular situation. At this moment googling for images of "hermaphroditism" I can't seem to actually find anything. Which says something about how rare this actually is. I'd have to be given a particular situation to respond. In most cases there are probably easy things to look at, like DNA, like whether one set of sexual organs is fully developed and the other is not, and so on. We're talking about an abnormality here though, which could probably be caused by many things, from genetic lottery to fetal alcohol syndrome or who knows what else.
You're actually using the term "hermaphrodite" incorrectly and so was Porter prior. Hermaphrodite is not synonymous with ambiguous genitalia. It's two different things entirely.
I'll be back...
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
