Joseph Smith & a LITERAL 3500 Year Old Abraham Autograph

[_Shulem]

You can have all the doubts about anything you want. None of that alters the fact for me that I know for certain that the Book of Mormon is true and of God. For me it is knowledge, it is certainty, not just faith

It's not that I "doubt" the Book of Mormon or Book of Abraham is true, there are no doubts, really. I just KNOW it's not true based purely on the evidence -- and science. So you see, for me there really is nothing to doubt. But for you, there is plenty to doubt! The evidence stares you in the face and your eyes are closed and you cover your ears like a child.

Frankly, I think you have a STRONGER belief that the sun will rise tomorrow over your faith in the Book of Mormon. You just might someday deny the latter but never the former. Why, because one is knowledge and one is faith, just like I explained earlier. But I don't know if this is sinking into your childish mind.

[_zerinus]

This thread is about probabilities. So, let’s get back to it, shall we, zerinus?

It is about certainty. My assurance of the truth of the Book of Mormon is certainty.

[_zerinus]

As a former apologist I used to say pretty much the exact same thing. . . .

I don't care what you used to say. What I say is what matters to me now.

[_Shulem]

Wrong again! You don't know for sure that the sun will rise tomorrow. There is no "mathematical certainty" about it. All suns will die eventually, and there is no guarantee that it will not be our sun's turn tomorrow. There is a very strong probability that the sum will rise tomorrow, but it is not a certainty—at least for you it isn't. We have other assurances that the sun will definitely rise tomorrow which you don't have; but that is beside the point. You have faith that the sum will rise tomorrow. It is a well-founded hope, an expectation, but not certainty

Silly you. I know for sure the sun will rise tomorrow. Absolutely. I'm positive about that as it has been doing for billions of years and as science has determined it will for billions more. You see, I believe in science and this gives me knowledge. I do NOT have a hope that the sun will rise tomorrow. There is no hope involved in my thinking. Neither is there any faith. I just KNOW it will happen and nothing can stop that.

And, I know you know too!

[_grindael]

Copy and paste zerinus...

I know you are but what am I.

It will have as much if not more of an impact than what you are currently writing. You can color it any way you like.

[_Shulem]

My belief in the Book of Mormon is more certain than your expectation that the sun will rise tomorrow

Closing your eyes and covering your ears again, just like a child.

I'm convinced you are going to enter into apostasy and will deny your religion. I'm absolutely convinced of that.

[_Shulem]

The Book of Mormon is true, Joseph Smith was a prophet, and he restored God's true Church on earth. No doubts about it. There is more certainty about that than the sum will rise tomorrow.

Spoken like a true religious fanatic on the verge of completely falling apart. This board must really be getting to you now.

Just think, you're going to be an apostate, just like me. Isn't that exciting? I'm excited for you!

[_zerinus]

It's not that I "doubt" the Book of Mormon or Book of Abraham is true, there are no doubts, really. I just KNOW it's not true based purely on the evidence -- and science.

I don't think that you do have such evidence. You may think that you do, but you don't.

So you see, for me there really is nothing to doubt. But for you, there is plenty to doubt! The evidence stares you in the face and your eyes are closed and you cover your ears like a child.

See above. There is no such evidence.

Frankly, I think you have a STRONGER belief that the sun will rise tomorrow over your faith in the Book of Mormon. You just might someday deny the latter but never the former. Why, because one is knowledge and one is faith, just like I explained earlier. But I don't know if this is sinking into your childish mind.

Already answered.

[_Shulem]

This thread is about probabilities. So, let’s get back to it, shall we, zerinus?

It is about certainty. My assurance of the truth of the Book of Mormon is certainty.

Philo,

Please remind zerinus what this thread (which you made) is really all about and set him straight. He's terribly confused. He's ranting like a child and throwing a tantrum.

[_zerinus]

Silly you. I know for sure the sun will rise tomorrow. Absolutely. I'm positive about that as it has been doing for billions of years and as science has determined it will for billions more. You see, I believe in science and this gives me knowledge. I do NOT have a hope that the sun will rise tomorrow. There is no hope involved in my thinking. Neither is there any faith. I just KNOW it will happen and nothing can stop that.

Let me ask you a question then. Do you think the sum will rise forever? Do you thing that a time will ever come when the sun will rise no more? If you say yes, then you are going against science, because science says that all suns will eventually die, and will "rise" no more.

And, I know you know too!

Well I do know things that you don't know. There are unfulfilled prophecies that remain to be fulfilled, hence the certainty of the sun will rise tomorrow. But you don't know that. So from your point of view, there is no 100% guarantee that the sun will rise tomorrow.