Joseph Smith & a LITERAL 3500 Year Old Abraham Autograph

[_Maksutov]

No sir I am not. Those are questions posed to you that are based on factual written documentation and the behavior represented therein, for which you have no answers.

I can neither speak for Joseph Smith nor Emma Smith; I can only speak for the Book of Mormon, which I know to be true.

You don't speak for the Book of Mormon. You didn't write it and you don't own it. It belongs to all of us, including Mormon denominations that reject almost everything you say. Too bad, eh? You get to speak for yourself. And you have a lot of 'splaining to do, Lucy.

[_Maksutov]

Joseph knew what he had in the Book of Mormon and knew what he said he had.

He tries to sell it?

Emma knew what Joseph said he had in the Papyri and she sells the collection including the mummies?

These things of the Divine? They put a price tag on them like they were eBay items?

You are nitpicking irrelevancies.

The fact that the Book of Mormon is a concocted fraud is irrelevant to you but not to people who care to know the truth. Yes, the truth, not The "Truth" where we play the Mormon game of redefining everything. That's an old cult tactic to distract skeptics but it doesn't work with me, Z-boy. Now tell me that's rubbish and go flouncing off.

[_Shulem]

Fair enough, I am willing to concede that Joseph Smith may have identified the mummies to be of Egyptian royalty

There is no "may have" about it. He did in fact identify his mummies with royalty. The testimony of honest news reporters (I provided only one which you unjustly slammed) and the testimony of faithful church members, especially the testimony of one of his wives, proves that Joseph Smith claimed the mummies were royal. There is no "may have" about it, the obvious conclusion is indisputable. Nevertheless, for the purpose of reaching an absolute conclusion which is beyond refutation, I will provide Joseph Smith's own testimony which will settle the matter whereby you, zerinus, can say, "Joseph Smith identified the mummies to be of Egyptian royalty". Bear in mind, with this, you also have to consider the things he said along with that and that has direct relevance about whether the papyrus was an original autograph which you have so stubbornly resisted. In other words, your concession opens up a can of worms -- an investigation of further evidence destroys your argument.

Positive confirmation Joseph Smith idenitfied that the mummies in question were of the royal family of the house of Pharaoh is contained in the Kirtland Papers, a small notebook bearing a fictitious story about Egyptian history he translated, information as such was not included in his Book of Abraham. This historic document is signed by Joseph Smith, by his own hand. The title page of the front cover of manuscript No. 6, signed by Joseph Smith Jr.reads:

"Valuable Discovery of
hidden records that have
been obtained from the ancient
burial place of the Egyptians,
Joseph Smith Jr."




PAGE 3

"Katumin, Princess, daughter of On-i-tos Pharaoh- King
of Egypt, who began to reign in the year of the
World 2962
Katumin was born in the 30th year of the reign of her
father, and died when she was 28 years old, which was
the year 3020."

[_Shulem]

Fair enough, I am willing to concede that Joseph Smith may have identified the mummies to be of Egyptian royalty; that proves what? And how does that affect his translation of the Book of Abraham one way or another?

First of all it proves that Joseph Smith was wrong in identifying a mummy as a king of Egypt. How ever he came to that determination (revelation or guessing) is your problem, zerinus. Joseph Smith did not have the body of a king of Egypt to match the antiquity and date which he claimed. It's impossibe. Thus we see that the so-called inspiration of the Mormon prophet was flawed -- false. Where is the Holy Ghost? Where is the all knowing Jesus Christ who speaks through Joseph Smith as feigned in the Doctrine & Covenants? Manuscript No. 6 is part of the translation work performed by Joseph Smith using his gift as a translator and getting his inspiration through the so-called Spirit. But it's utter rubbish.

Let me tell you what is also rubbish. The idea that Isis, a queen of heaven, mother of Horus, a woman having a divine vagina -- is, according to Joseph Smith, a mortal king of Egypt. That is rubbish. Also, the ridiculous claim that a king's name is in the writing of Facsimile No. 3 when in fact, the writing bears testimony to Isis, queen mother of heaven.

But you, zerinus, keep telling me that Joseph Smith knew something that Egyptologists don't know or can't seem to figure out. This business of turning a woman into a man and disregarding the text that labels her is utterly preposterous. The figure of Isis and her royal inscription is contained in the tombs, monuments, and records throughout dynastic Egypt. Isis is female and represented in her divine status as such on both stone and paper. You can't deny that. Never at any time did the Egyptians remove her vagina and strip her goddess stature from her to make her a mortal king.

But Joseph Smith did all that! A man who thought he had a mummy king in his possession. A man who lied about so many things. A man who lied to his own wife. A man who cannot be trusted with anything.

[_Maksutov]

Fair enough, I am willing to concede that Joseph Smith may have identified the mummies to be of Egyptian royalty; that proves what? And how does that affect his translation of the Book of Abraham one way or another?

First of all it proves that Joseph Smith was wrong in identifying a mummy as a king of Egypt. How ever he came to that determination (revelation or guessing) is your problem, zerinus. Joseph Smith did not have the body of a king of Egypt to match the antiquity and date which he claimed. It's impossibe. Thus we see that the so-called inspiration of the Mormon prophet was flawed -- false. Where is the Holy Ghost? Where is the all knowing Jesus Christ who speaks through Joseph Smith as feigned in the Doctrine & Covenants? Manuscript No. 6 is part of the translation work performed by Joseph Smith using his gift as a translator and getting his inspiration through the so-called Spirit. But it's utter rubbish.

Let me tell you what is also rubbish. The idea that Isis, a queen of heaven, mother of Horus, a woman having a divine vagina -- is, according to Joseph Smith, a mortal king of Egypt. That is rubbish. Also, the ridiculous claim that a king's name is in the writing of Facsimile No. 3 when in fact, the writing bears testimony to Isis, queen mother of heaven.

But you, zerinus, keep telling me that Joseph Smith knew something that Egyptologists don't know or can't seem to figure out. This business of turning a woman into a man and disregarding the text that labels her is utterly preposterous. The figure of Isis and her royal inscription is contained in the tombs, monuments, and records throughout dynastic Egypt. Isis is female and represented in her divine status as such on both stone and paper. You can't deny that. Never at any time did the Egyptians remove her vagina and strip her goddess stature from her to make her a mortal king.

But Joseph Smith did all that! A man who thought he had a mummy king in his possession. A man who lied about so many things. A man who lied to his own wife. A man who cannot be trusted with anything.

Chasing women and lying about it got him killed, as surely as being caught with his pants down by an angry husband. But Smith was smart enough to surround himself with the kind of "men" who would allow him to shtup their wives and daughters if he claimed it came from God. And these are men we are supposed to admire as great pioneers and saints.

[_zerinus]

There is no "may have" about it. He did in fact identify his mummies with royalty. The testimony of honest news reporters (I provided only one which you unjustly slammed) and the testimony of faithful church members, especially the testimony of one of his wives, proves that Joseph Smith claimed the mummies were royal. There is no "may have" about it, the obvious conclusion is indisputable. Nevertheless, for the purpose of reaching an absolute conclusion which is beyond refutation, I will provide Joseph Smith's own testimony which will settle the matter whereby you, zerinus, can say, "Joseph Smith identified the mummies to be of Egyptian royalty". Bear in mind, with this, you also have to consider the things he said along with that and that has direct relevance about whether the papyrus was an original autograph which you have so stubbornly resisted. In other words, your concession opens up a can of worms -- an investigation of further evidence destroys your argument.

Positive confirmation Joseph Smith idenitfied that the mummies in question were of the royal family of the house of Pharaoh is contained in the Kirtland Papers, a small notebook bearing a fictitious story about Egyptian history he translated, information as such was not included in his Book of Abraham. This historic document is signed by Joseph Smith, by his own hand. The title page of the front cover of manuscript No. 6, signed by Joseph Smith Jr.reads:

"Valuable Discovery of
hidden records that have
been obtained from the ancient
burial place of the Egyptians,
Joseph Smith Jr."



PAGE 3

"Katumin, Princess, daughter of On-i-tos Pharaoh- King
of Egypt, who began to reign in the year of the
World 2962
Katumin was born in the 30th year of the reign of her
father, and died when she was 28 years old, which was
the year 3020."

Not convinced. That appears to be a very dubious item from a very dubious website. It comes from an automatic archive made by http://web.archive.org, from a very dubious website called http://www.myegyptology.net, which appears to be a non-existent or unreachable site. A “who.is” search for the URL produced the following result:

Registrar Data

Registrant Contact Information:
Name
WHOISGUARD PROTECTED
Organization
WHOISGUARD, INC.
Address
P.O. BOX 0823-03411
City
PANAMA
State / Province
PANAMA
Postal Code
00000
Country
PA
Phone
+507.8365503
Fax
+51.17057182
Email


Administrative Contact Information:
Name
WHOISGUARD PROTECTED
Organization
WHOISGUARD, INC.
Address
P.O. BOX 0823-03411
City
PANAMA
State / Province
PANAMA
Postal Code
00000
Country
PA
Phone
+507.8365503
Fax
+51.17057182
Email


Technical Contact Information:
Name
WHOISGUARD PROTECTED
Organization
WHOISGUARD, INC.
Address
P.O. BOX 0823-03411
City
PANAMA
State / Province
PANAMA
Postal Code
00000
Country
PA
Phone
+507.8365503
Fax
+51.17057182
Email

Information Updated: 2017-07-29 14:26:23

It appears to have been a fraudulent piece of information originating from a fraudulent site called http://www.myegyptology.net originally registered in Panama, the home of all fraudulent sites (and no longer reachable on the Internet), and automatically archived by http://web.archive.org. LOL! Try again.

[_Shulem]

Not convinced. That appears to be a very dubious item from a very dubious website. It comes from an automatic archive made by http://web.archive.org, from a very dubious website called http://www.myegyptology.net, which appears to be a non-existent or unreachable site.

You really are ignorant. Do you realize just how silly and foolish you are?

The document was suppressed by the LDS church (kept hidden) and later exposed to the world through the Tanners. The document is in the LDS church archives.

It is genuine.

[_Maksutov]

There is no "may have" about it. He did in fact identify his mummies with royalty. The testimony of honest news reporters (I provided only one which you unjustly slammed) and the testimony of faithful church members, especially the testimony of one of his wives, proves that Joseph Smith claimed the mummies were royal. There is no "may have" about it, the obvious conclusion is indisputable. Nevertheless, for the purpose of reaching an absolute conclusion which is beyond refutation, I will provide Joseph Smith's own testimony which will settle the matter whereby you, zerinus, can say, "Joseph Smith identified the mummies to be of Egyptian royalty". Bear in mind, with this, you also have to consider the things he said along with that and that has direct relevance about whether the papyrus was an original autograph which you have so stubbornly resisted. In other words, your concession opens up a can of worms -- an investigation of further evidence destroys your argument.

Positive confirmation Joseph Smith idenitfied that the mummies in question were of the royal family of the house of Pharaoh is contained in the Kirtland Papers, a small notebook bearing a fictitious story about Egyptian history he translated, information as such was not included in his Book of Abraham. This historic document is signed by Joseph Smith, by his own hand. The title page of the front cover of manuscript No. 6, signed by Joseph Smith Jr.reads:

"Valuable Discovery of
hidden records that have
been obtained from the ancient
burial place of the Egyptians,
Joseph Smith Jr."



PAGE 3

"Katumin, Princess, daughter of On-i-tos Pharaoh- King
of Egypt, who began to reign in the year of the
World 2962
Katumin was born in the 30th year of the reign of her
father, and died when she was 28 years old, which was
the year 3020."

Not convinced. That appears to be a very dubious item from a very dubious website. It comes from an automatic archive made by http://web.archive.org, from a very dubious website called http://www.myegyptology.net, which appears to be a non-existent or unreachable site. A “who.is” search for the URL produced the following result:

Registrar Data

Registrant Contact Information:
Name
WHOISGUARD PROTECTED
Organization
WHOISGUARD, INC.
Address
P.O. BOX 0823-03411
City
PANAMA
State / Province
PANAMA
Postal Code
00000
Country
PA
Phone
+507.8365503
Fax
+51.17057182
Email


Administrative Contact Information:
Name
WHOISGUARD PROTECTED
Organization
WHOISGUARD, INC.
Address
P.O. BOX 0823-03411
City
PANAMA
State / Province
PANAMA
Postal Code
00000
Country
PA
Phone
+507.8365503
Fax
+51.17057182
Email


Technical Contact Information:
Name
WHOISGUARD PROTECTED
Organization
WHOISGUARD, INC.
Address
P.O. BOX 0823-03411
City
PANAMA
State / Province
PANAMA
Postal Code
00000
Country
PA
Phone
+507.8365503
Fax
+51.17057182
Email

Information Updated: 2017-07-29 14:26:23

It appears to have been a fraudulent piece of information originating from a fraudulent site called http://www.myegyptology.net originally registered in Panama, the home of all fraudulent sites (and no longer reachable on the Internet), and automatically archived by http://web.archive.org. LOL! Try again.

So you reject this because we don't have the original but you accept the Book of Mormon?

LOL indeed.

[_Shulem]

It appears to have been a fraudulent piece of information originating from a fraudulent site called http://www.myegyptology.net originally registered in Panama, the home of all fraudulent sites (and no longer reachable on the Internet), and automatically archived by http://web.archive.org. LOL! Try again.

You're making all kinds of wild and crazy claims in reaching your conclusion that I've presented a false document in this debate. Shame on you. The real shame, however, belongs to Joseph Smith who made that document. It's a complete fraud just as the entire Book of Abraham is and its silly Facsimile Explanations.

You owe me an apology, zerinus. I won't let this go.

[_zerinus]

You really are ignorant. Do you realize just how silly and foolish you are?

The document was suppressed by the LDS church (kept hidden) and later exposed to the world through the Tanners. The document is in the LDS church archives.

It is genuine.

Sorry, not convinced.