MG & JLHPROF: From Whence Come Spiritual Experiences?

[_mentalgymnast]

If there is a God/Creator/All Powerful Deity Who Was Once A Man Like Us etc who has the capability of communicating with each of us individually, why would he choose the exact same mechanism for communication as is used in confirmation bias?

Couldn’t he send me a text/e mail/pick up the phone/meet up for a coffee/make some words appear on a rock I’ve found recently/send me an agressively assertive angel etc?

Every day each of us faces a test. It is the test of our lifetimes: will we choose to believe in Him and allow the light of His gospel to grow within us, or will we refuse to believe and insist on traveling alone in the dark? The Savior provides His gospel as a light to guide those who choose to believe in and follow Him.

...we too must choose to open our hearts to the divine reality of the Savior—to His eternal light and His healing mercy. Prophets across the ages have encouraged us and even implored us to believe in Christ. Their exhortations reflect a fundamental fact: God does not force us to believe. Instead He invites us to believe by sending living prophets and apostles to teach us, by providing scriptures, and by beckoning to us through His Spirit. We are the ones who must choose to embrace those spiritual invitations, electing to see with inward eyes the spiritual light with which He calls us. The decision to believe is the most important choice we ever make. It shapes all our other decisions.

https://www.LDS.org/general-conference/ ... e?lang=eng

Regards,
MG

[_mentalgymnast]

As sock puppet indicated upthread, the OP provides a rational and evidence based explanation for transcendent phenomenon experienced by human beings. Sock then stated that one can choose what to believe.

OK.

What do you think the best evidence indicates regarding the reality of the global flood of Noah in the Old Testament?

The scientific evidence doesn't support the whole earth being covered by water during the time period of Noah.

What is the best explanation for the atmospheric phenomenon of rainbows?

Refraction of light.

Do you think that some rainbows are caused by refraction and reflection of sunlight by water droplets in the atmosphere and that God himself places one in the sky now and then to remind humankind of his biblical covenant to never again destroy the Earth by flood?

No.

Either there was a flood that covered the entire Earth within the last 10,000 years, or there was not.

Agreed.

Either rainbows are caused by refraction and reflection of sunlight through water droplets in the atmosphere, or it they are not.

Agreed.

Either Joseph Smith has sex with women to whom he was not legally married, including young teenagers, or he did not.

Agreed.

Are your beliefs based on the best evidence or the emotions and feelings that make you the most comfortable?

Both.

You can choose your own beliefs, but you can't alter the facts or the reality they represent.

Agreed.

If one does not base their beliefs on the best evidence, especially when the weight of evidence can leave no reasonable doubt as to reality, then they are not being honorable or fair to themselves or to others to whom they profess their false beliefs.

Agreed. Although, I think it is an open question as to whether or not the "false beliefs" are indeed false in all cases.

Just consider all of the RMs who have expressed regret on this board regarding the falsehoods they preached to their investigators while on their missions, especially when overseas.

That is the result of choices they have made in regards to their faith and what they have chosen to believe or not believe.

You went a bit off tangent from your OP question and my original response.

Regards,
MG

[_mentalgymnast]

... I consider MG as a bit passive aggressive and sorely afflicted by faith, he seems to be still rational in the main.

I don't see faith as being an affliction. I see it as a result of having to make choices based upon incomplete information/evidence. It becomes more or less a challenge, rather than an affliction. And yes, I would consider myself to be "rational in the main".

Not sure where the "passive aggressive" is coming from. I know others have expressed this along the way, but I'm somewhat perplexed as to why you might say this as a result of any interactions I've had with you?

Regards,
MG

[_mentalgymnast]

Trying to talk science with an esotericist is kind of interesting because it really underscores the gulf that exists between a brain that literally can't comprehend rationalism on any useful level to a brain that, at the least, is just wired differently and interprets information with a variety of different processes.

You have a remarkably prodigious self awareness of your own superiority.

Regards,
MG

[_Themis]

If there is a God/Creator/All Powerful Deity Who Was Once A Man Like Us etc who has the capability of communicating with each of us individually, why would he choose the exact same mechanism for communication as is used in confirmation bias?

Couldn’t he send me a text/e mail/pick up the phone/meet up for a coffee/make some words appear on a rock I’ve found recently/send me an agressively assertive angel etc?

God communicates with man according to the degree of their faith. If your faith is as good as the Brother of Jared's, you will receive a revelation that is as good as his (Ether 3). But if your faith is less, you will receive something that is more commensurate with your faith (and if your faith is zero, then you get nothing). God would be doing you a disservice to give you a revelation that is greater than is consistent with your faith, because if you rejected it, that would then bring you under a greater condemnation. It is for your own good that he doesn't do that:

Alma 32:

17 Yea, there are many who do say: If thou wilt show unto us a sign from heaven, then we shall know of a surety; then we shall believe.
18 Now I ask, is this faith? Behold, I say unto you, Nay; for if a man knoweth a thing he hath no cause to believe, for he knoweth it.
19 And now, how much more cursed is he that knoweth the will of God and doeth it not, than he that only believeth, or only hath cause to believe, and falleth into transgression?

LOL Blind Faith. The only kind of faith zerinus has in God.

[_I have a question]

If God spiritually confirmed to me that He didn’t exist, where would that leave us?

[_Themis]

... I consider MG as a bit passive aggressive and sorely afflicted by faith, he seems to be still rational in the main.

I don't see faith as being an affliction. I see it as a result of having to make choices based upon incomplete information/evidence. It becomes more or less a challenge, rather than an affliction. And yes, I would consider myself to be "rational in the main".

And now MG is here to peddle blind faith as though it is a good thing.

[_Themis]

1. Would you listen and obey?

I did as a believing member for decades.

2. How would you feel about being 'spoon fed'?

Not sure how it is being spoon fed. Joseph claims that is how it started for him.

3. How do you feel about 'helicopter parents'?

That idea is highly promoted by religion all the time.

[_Themis]

The way I see it is if there is a creator/God, He is going to communicate with us in any way He can. And since we have brain/nervous systems, He can and will use that conduit, language and mental maps included, as a 'carrier' for 'Spirit'. Although when doing so I think that this sensory system can go into 'system overload' when the Spirit is 'strong', so to speak.

Generally,however, those spiritual impressions are 'whispers' and intimations that go where the 'wind listeth', as scriptural language says.

Brain/heart/Spirit...they're all interrelated, in my opinion.

Doc has already shut you down by showing God is not doing the most obvious and effective way to communicate with people.

And it's important to remember that much of what we may call spiritual phenomena IS simply a construct/fabrication of the mind. It takes time and practice to differentiate between pure mental processes and those impressions on the mind that may come/originate elsewhere.

You have made the claim before without even beginning to describe how one can tell the difference and know the one difference is from a divine being. How do you know you are not just fooling yourself in order to feel better about what you want to believe?

[_Craig Paxton]

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away" - Phillip K. Dick