mentalgymnast wrote:You have a remarkably prodigious self awareness of your own superiority.
Regards, MG
mentalgymnast wrote:
DrW wrote:... I consider MG as a bit passive aggressive and sorely afflicted by faith, he seems to be still rational in the main.
Not sure where the "passive aggressive" is coming from. I know others have expressed this along the way, but I'm somewhat perplexed as to why you might say this as a result of any interactions I've had with you?
Regards, MG
I'd insult you, but you exist and that's insulting enough for everyone.
- Doc
Last edited by Guest on Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
mentalgymnast wrote:And it's important to remember that much of what we may call spiritual phenomena IS simply a construct/fabrication of the mind. It takes time and practice to differentiate between pure mental processes and those impressions on the mind that may come/originate elsewhere.
How do you practice differentiating between spiritual phenomena and simple constructs/fabrications of the mind, when you cannot identify how, specifically, to differentiate between spiritual phenomena and simple constructs/fabrications of the mind?
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
mentalgymnast wrote:And it's important to remember that much of what we may call spiritual phenomena IS simply a construct/fabrication of the mind. It takes time and practice to differentiate between pure mental processes and those impressions on the mind that may come/originate elsewhere.
How do you practice differentiating between spiritual phenomena and simple constructs/fabrications of the mind, when you cannot identify how, specifically, to differentiate between spiritual phenomena and simple constructs/fabrications of the mind?
It's all very esoteric, bruh.
- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
17 Yea, there are many who do say: If thou wilt show unto us a sign from heaven, then we shall know of a surety; then we shall believe. 18 Now I ask, is this faith? Behold, I say unto you, Nay; for if a man knoweth a thing he hath no cause to believe, for he knoweth it. 19 And now, [b][i]how much more cursed is he that knoweth the will of God and doeth it not, than he that only believeth, or only hath cause to believe, and falleth into transgression
LOL Blind Faith. The only kind of faith zerinus has in God.
I'm not sure that zerinus is implying that his faith is blind.
It is fairly obvious, however, that "if a man knoweth a thing he hath no cause to believe, for he knoweth it."
Themis wrote:I did as a believing member for decades.
But you didn't have God speaking to you face to face.
MG wrote:2. How would you feel about being 'spoon fed'?
Themis wrote:Not sure how it is being spoon fed. Joseph claims that is how it started for him.
True. But should it be that way for everyone else? How would that work...on the ground, so to speak?
MG wrote:3. How do you feel about 'helicopter parents'?
Themis wrote:That idea is highly promoted by religion all the time.
Not so much in the CofJCofLDS. In fact, that seems to be what some of the critics here would like to see...that is, helicopter parents that speak to everyone face to face so that there can be no doubt/question.
mentalgymnast wrote: I'm not sure that zerinus is implying that his faith is blind.
It is fairly obvious, however, that "if a man knoweth a thing he hath no cause to believe, for he knoweth it."
And if we "know it" we are less free to choose.
Refer back to my response to sock puppet...
Regards, MG
You say he didn't and then go on to describe blind faith. Blind faith is not knowing but believing and acting as though it is true. Knowing something does not destroy good faith. I have faith in may parents not because I believe things which I have no idea about, but because I know certain things through evidence/experience that makes me put a lot of faith in them as a result. If you know it you are still just as free to choose, but now you know what the consequences of each choice are. How is that a bad thing MG?
Not knowing means people will choose all kinds of things to have blind faith in. How is this a good trait MG, and why should people be punished by God for not guessing the right one?
mentalgymnast wrote:The way I see it is if there is a creator/God, He is going to communicate with us in any way He can. And since we have brain/nervous systems, He can and will use that conduit, language and mental maps included, as a 'carrier' for 'Spirit'. Although when doing so I think that this sensory system can go into 'system overload' when the Spirit is 'strong', so to speak.
Generally,however, those spiritual impressions are 'whispers' and intimations that go where the 'wind listeth', as scriptural language says.
Brain/heart/Spirit...they're all interrelated, in my opinion.
Doc has already shut you down by showing God is not doing the most obvious and effective way to communicate with people.
And it's important to remember that much of what we may call spiritual phenomena IS simply a construct/fabrication of the mind. It takes time and practice to differentiate between pure mental processes and those impressions on the mind that may come/originate elsewhere.
You have made the claim before without even beginning to describe how one can tell the difference and know the one difference is from a divine being. How do you know you are not just fooling yourself in order to feel better about what you want to believe?
I don't think I was "shut down" at all. In fact, I'm in basic agreement with him in that I believe the brain/mind are how we experience the phenomena of awareness/perception in this sphere of existence.
And I've already mentioned that one of the challenges in life is being able to discern that which is being generated purely 'within' and that which may be generated/given from without. I don't know that awareness/perception of something from without discounts the mechanism by which it is experienced/received. Even if want to or choose to believe that Spirit speaks to Spirit, so to speak, I think that the brain/body are still going to be 'there'. It's not like they've gone on a temporary vacation.
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:I'd insult you, but you exist and that's insulting enough for everyone.
- Doc
Beginnings of a derail...here it comes, folks.
Your response does not lend itself to a productive/civil conversation and/or discussion. It does lead us down a road that ultimately leads to a cul-de-sac/dead end where we find ourselves going round and round wasting each other's time. Rather than leading us in an unproductive/uncivil direction, you might want to add substantively to the discussion?
mentalgymnast wrote:And it's important to remember that much of what we may call spiritual phenomena IS simply a construct/fabrication of the mind. It takes time and practice to differentiate between pure mental processes and those impressions on the mind that may come/originate elsewhere.
How do you practice differentiating between spiritual phenomena and simple constructs/fabrications of the mind, when you cannot identify how, specifically, to differentiate between spiritual phenomena and simple constructs/fabrications of the mind?
I think I'm getting better at it. I don't think I can say/share much more than that with you because I believe it's something we each have to experience/know for ourselves.
Back at a time when I was where you are currently at, I did however, rely on the fact that others told/shared with me that they had been able to...over time...tell the difference. At the time I questioned that. Just as you do. It took time and my own experiences/feelings/thoughts along the way to come to a different point of view. Not that I'm an absolute expert.
But I can see, and I think I know, where your question is coming from. And as long as you're asking this question in all honesty and looking for possible answers, I think it's great that you're asking it.
But if you are already 'set in your ways', that may end up being a hindrance/detriment.
mentalgymnast wrote:But you didn't have God speaking to you face to face.
Yes and I believed anyways. If I believed without God speaking to me face to face I would believe even more if God spoke to me face to face.
True. But should it be that way for everyone else? How would that work...on the ground, so to speak?
Why not for everyone else? You have claims being made that God or angels have appeared to many including groups of people.
Not so much in the CofJCofLDS. In fact, that seems to be what some of the critics here would like to see...that is, helicopter parents that speak to everyone face to face so that there can be no doubt/question.
Helicopter parents are those who keep special attention on their children all the time. The idea here would be that God is always watching. This idea is taught a lot by religion including LDS. It's one of the ways religion tries to manipulate members into doing what they want.
