MG & JLHPROF: From Whence Come Spiritual Experiences?

[_grindael]

There are psychopaths that have no sense of right and wrong.

Or perhaps they're right and all the rest of us are the one's who've got it wrong.

Keep telling yourself that.

[_Themis]

You didn't fix anything. You just restated it. Supernatural was the explanation of the many things humans didn't understand. That list has consistently gone down as natural explanations have grown.

I just don't agree. I found this to be a beautiful explanation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h50KlkCqRhQ

Doesn't change the fact evolution provides an explanation. You even admitted that it did.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

I know this will get dismissed, and if I type too many letters it'll just get passed over, so I'll attempt to keep it short for our resident entrenchers.

- Death, or absolute annihilation, is inevitable and to some extent unpredictable.

- This produces existential terror, or dread, or fear, or angst.

- We manage our terror, or dread, or fear, or angst embracing cultural values. Culture in context to this board is the total system of Mormonism.

- People who struggle with existential terror, or dread, or fear, or angst tend to opt for total systems offering immortality, national identity, posterity, and sex. Basically what we see in Mormonism, Islam, and other structured systems.

- Symbolic immortality is also offered by participating in a Marvelous Work and a Wonder; being part of something greater that will ultimately outlive the individual.

- As a result the individual derives value from the system, ie, self-esteem or something akin.

- The terror of death, or absolute and inevitable annihilation, creates such a profound psychological effect in people that laws are created to govern everyone that rewards people who stick to the system and punish or kill others who do not adhere to their cultural worldview.

This is why it isn't unusual to see the energy and behavior expended on religion transfer to some other symbol of immortality such as politics or whatever. Interestingly enough, I see The CCC in the Spirit Paradise forum, commit to both religious and political affiliation to ameliorate his existential dread. You can literally show the believer an example of their preferred system doing the exact same thing they themselves say they despise, but it only causes entrenchment.

Some people come around. Some people don't. You'd have to find a way to address mental entrenchment and existential angst in order for the latter to change their worldview.

- Doc

[_mentalgymnast]

You are a liar Mental. You lied about your so called experiences.

No I didn't. You are making a false accusation. Shame on you.

Why would you discount and/or mock the experiences of others?

Regards,
MG

[_mentalgymnast]

...I had the burning in the bosom confirming the Book of Mormon wasn’t true...

That's interesting. Any others here have a similar experience?

What's interesting is that I haven't had any 'peak experience' in regards to the Book of Mormon. My experience with the Book of Mormon has been more or less a series of readings...ponderings...prayer...study. But not much in the way of anything I'd really call a witness or or spiritual experience. My experiences in the numinous realm have been connected with other things.

Regards,
MG

[_mentalgymnast]

The consistency issue is particularly troublesome, especially when the Mormon newsroom trumpets, as a spiritual experience, every coincidental "win" during emergencies, man-made or otherwise, but is utterly silent on the equally coincidental losses. To me, using that after-the-fact hindsight, as it was called in this thread, to declare the existence of a spiritual experience is simply dishonest.

It is drawing targets around where arrows have already fallen.

If one is to believe in Joseph's First Vision, it becomes apparent that hindsight brought him greater clarity. I don't see anything inherently problematic with that.

Regards,
MG

[_mentalgymnast]

You misunderstand my posts then. I said recently to MG that my posts here are not meant to prove his beliefs false, but establish whether one knows they are true or not. It has been showed that we don't know. Naturalistic explanations are also not necessarily meant to prove any experience is natural. Only that naturalistic explanations do explain them.

I haven't read the whole thread... [I was m]ostly referencing the OP and harsh nature of so many of these posts...

Ya think?

Regards,
MG

[_mentalgymnast]

...Why do some 90% of the people on the planet profess a belief in god, regardless of the particular form that belief takes? Why do atheists espouse similar moral codes? Why does Everybody Wang Chung care whether Columbus was a moral dude or not over in the other thread? Where does this sense of right and wrong come from? We all seem to have it, to some degree or another. We all seem to possess the capacity of "sensing" things beyond both ourselves and our well-established physical senses. Is it logical, is it natural? To a great extent this whole debate is just a re-litigation of human nature.

LDS Doctrine has an answer for that.

Light of Christ.

Regards,
MG

[_JLHPROF]

I had the burning in the bosom confirming the Book of Mormon wasn’t true

Joseph Smith
"The Holy Ghost has no other effect than pure intelligence. It is more powerful in expanding the mind, enlightening the understanding, and storing the intellect with present knowledge, of a man who is of the literal seed of Abraham, than one that is a Gentile, though it may not have half as much visible effect upon the body; for as the Holy Ghost falls upon one of the literal seed of Abraham, it is calm and serene; and his whole soul and body are only exercised by the pure spirit of intelligence; while the effect of the Holy Ghost upon a Gentile, is to purge out the old blood, and make him actually of the seed of Abraham. That man that has none of the blood of Abraham (naturally) must have a new creation by the Holy Ghost. In such a case, there may be more of a powerful effect upon the body, and visible to the eye, than upon an Israelite, while the Israelite at first might be far before the Gentile in pure intelligence."

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

That must be nice. Instead of hard work, arduous study, research, diligence, and a commitment to an academic discipline you can just get that sweet, sweet Pure Intelligence TM.

- Doc