Inconsistent Stories (Early Mormonism)

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_grindael
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Inconsistent Stories (Early Mormonism)

Post by _grindael »

Reading through Richard Bushman's Bio, "Rough Stone Rolling" and found a lot of inconsistencies in the stories he relates came from Smith and family members... Some examples... He writes,

According to Lucy, Joseph kept the seerstone on his person to keep track of the plates.


But he relates this incident...

Joseph Sr. heard enough to learn that the gang aimed at getting the “gold Bible,” as they called it. When he got back, Emma went off at once to fetch Joseph from Macedon. Joseph left the well, borrowed a horse, and hastily rode through Palmyra to the Smith farm. He reassured the family that the plates were safe but decided that now was the time to bring them home.


Why did he need to leave his job and ride home when he could have just checked his stone? And then there is the box. Bushman writes,

Lucy said he concealed them in an old birch log by cutting out a segment of bark, carving out the interior, depositing the plates, and replacing the bark. This interim hiding place also gave him time to have a box made. Lucy directed him to a cabinetmaker who had made furniture for Sophronia.


Who did Joseph go to for the box? Willard Chase! Bushman then writes,

The Smiths’ efforts to keep the plates secret were of no avail. The day after Joseph left for Macedon, his father learned that ten or twelve men working with Willard Chase were conspiring to find the plates, and had sent for a conjuror sixty miles away whom they believed could discover the hiding place. Brigham Young said the conjuror traveled the sixty miles three times that season. “The man I refer to was a fortune-teller,” Young said, “a necromance, an astrologer, a soothsayer, and possessed as much talent as any man that walked on the American soil, and was one of the wickedest men I ever saw.” The next morning Joseph Sr. walked over the hill east of the Smith farm to the Lawrence place and found Willard Chase, Samuel Lawrence, the conjuror, and a group of others laying plans. Joseph Sr. heard enough to learn that the gang aimed at getting the “gold Bible,” as they called it.


Joseph had gone to Chase for a box promising a share in the money made from the Golden Bible. Chase refused and offered to lock them up for Jo. Jo then said he couldn't be in on his new Gold Bible Speculation. So what Bushman writes makes no sense.

He then writes that Hyrum gave him a box that he kept them in. Bushman says nothing about Chase refusing to make the box for Joseph. Then,

To elude Chase and Lawrence, Joseph moved the plates from the hearth to the cooper’s shop in the yard where Joseph Sr. carried on his trade. He buried the box under a floorboard and hid the plates themselves in a pile of flax in the shop loft. That night Willard Chase and his sister Sally Chase with her green glass came with their friends to search. They rummaged around outside but did not come in. Lucy learned later that Sally Chase told the men the plates were in the coopering shop. The next morning, the Smiths found the floor torn up and the box smashed. To their relief, the plates were safely buried in the flax.


This box was smashed? This box?

Image

Notice that the Church has to invent that there were actually THREE boxes... https://www.LDS.org/ensign/2001/01/take ... s?lang=eng

Bushman then writes,

Over a year later, David Whitmer met a group of incensed young men in Palmyra who claimed that before Joseph got the plates, “he had promised to share with them.” One of them, Samuel Lawrence, allied with Alva Beaman, a “rodsman” from Livonia, came to the Smith house to try to persuade Joseph to give them a share. 13 Joseph Knight, who was still at the Smiths’, said that “they Proposed to go shares with him and tried every way to Bargain with him. But Could not.” Whereupon Beaman held up his rods (sticks like dousing rods) until they pointed to the hearth where the plates were hidden.


In the Ensign they quote Martin Harris who was obviously confused about the box. He wrote,

"These plates were usually kept in a cherry box made for that purpose, in the possession of Joseph and myself.


And,

"When Joseph had obtained the plates, he communicated the fact to his father and mother. The plates remained concealed in the tree top until he got the chest made. He then went after them and brought them home. While on his way home with the plates, he was met by what appeared to be a man, who demanded the plates, and struck him with a club on his side, which was all black and blue. Joseph knocked the man down, and then ran for home, and was much out of breath. When he arrived at home, he handed the plates in at the window, and they were received from him by his mother. They were then hidden under the hearth in his father’s house. But the wall being partly down, it was feared that certain ones, who were trying to get possession of the plates, would get under the house and dig them out. Joseph then took them out, and hid them under the old cooper’s shop, by taking up a board and digging in the ground and burying them. When they were taken from there, they were put into an old Ontario glass-box. Old Mr. Beman sawed off the ends, making the box the right length to put them in, and when they went in he said he heard them jink, but he was not permitted to see them. He told me so.


This was the same Beman who was trying to get the plates from under the hearth? And Joseph did not get a box made while the plates were supposedly in the woods, he used the box in the picture above that he got from Hyrum who got it from Alvin Smith.

There are so many inconsistencies in these stories that it is hard to take any of it seriously.
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_grindael
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Re: Inconsistent Stories (Early Mormonism)

Post by _grindael »

It is claimed that in sending Martin Harris to Charles Anthon in 1829 that a prophecy in Isaiah was fulfilled, that a "sealed book" is taken to the learned and they cannot read it, but it is taken to the unlearned and they can.

The sealed book is supposedly the Book of Mormon plates because part of the plates were "sealed", according to Joseph Smith.

1. It is never mentioned in any early accounts that part of the plates were "sealed".
2. Part of the plates were NOT sealed, so it wasn't really a sealed book.
3. Joseph Smith didn't translate any of the sealed portion, so obviously he didn't read a sealed book either.

So how was this prophecy fulfilled?
Riding on a speeding train; trapped inside a revolving door;
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One focal point in a random world can change your direction:
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_grindael
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Re: Inconsistent Stories (Early Mormonism)

Post by _grindael »

About the "spectacles" that Jo claimed to find with the plates, Joseph Knight wrote that he

“seamed to think more of the glasses … then he did of the plates for says he I can see anything, they are marvelus...

If Joseph could "see anything", why couldn't he see who took the 116 pages?
Riding on a speeding train; trapped inside a revolving door;
Lost in the riddle of a quatrain; Stuck in an elevator between floors.
One focal point in a random world can change your direction:
One step where events converge may alter your perception.
_Maksutov
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Re: Inconsistent Stories (Early Mormonism)

Post by _Maksutov »

I wonder how we can consider the office of "prophet" to be "restored" when no one after Smith (except maybe Strang) showed or even claimed the same prophetic gifts?

To me it looks a lot like God in the form of the assassins killed Smith because he was screwing up. Later church presidents couldn't keep up with Smith because they no longer had the "keys"--if they did, they would have the power. Instead, they are impotent pretenders to power, relying on the words and accomplishments of earlier men. Whited sepulchres, priestcrafting in the corporate temples and in the great and spacious assembly building without challenge from the sheep like so many naked emperors.

Thanks for the history lessons, Grindael. Your time is well spent. :wink:
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_SuperDell
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Re: Inconsistent Stories (Early Mormonism)

Post by _SuperDell »

Biggest trouble with telling lies is trying to remember which you told and who you told it to?

Tell the truth and it is a lot easier. Some minor inconsistencies at times but the basic story always stays the same.
“Those who never retract their opinions love themselves more than they love truth.”
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_Maksutov
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Re: Inconsistent Stories (Early Mormonism)

Post by _Maksutov »

It would be interesting to do a sort of LARP of some of these events to visualize what it would actually look like and help imagine the context, insight into details and alternative explanations. Sort of like a dramatized thought experiment. Kudos to the "images of the restoration" project. It would be interesting to take it further.
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_Lemmie
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Re: Inconsistent Stories (Early Mormonism)

Post by _Lemmie »

Maksutov wrote:It would be interesting to do a sort of LARP of some of these events to visualize what it would actually look like and help imagine the context, insight into details and alternative explanations. Sort of like a dramatized thought experiment. Kudos to the "images of the restoration" project. It would be interesting to take it further.

That's an interesting point--the sheer physicality of some of the details and explanations would be fascinating to see acted out.
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Re: Inconsistent Stories (Early Mormonism)

Post by _Dr. Shades »

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_grindael
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Re: Inconsistent Stories (Early Mormonism)

Post by _grindael »

The Alva Beaman Story...

Lucy Smith wrote,

Soon after [A Company of men started hunting for the plates] one Mr <esqur> Beaman came from the neghboring village <of Livonia> a man of in whom we reposed much confidence and who was well worthy of the same to him Joseph told his apprehension of a mob and says he we must drive them away but the first thing to be attended to was to secrect the record and <breastplate> it was resolved that a portion of the hearth should be taken up and the plates buried under the same and the hearth relaid to prevent suspicion this was carefully and speedily done and the hearth was scarcely laid down when a large company of men came rushing up to the house armed with guns. Joseph threw the door open and taking a hint from the stratagem of his Grandfather Mack he halooed to the as if he had a legion at his command hand giving the word of command with great immportance and in a tone like stentor at the same time the males that belonged to the house from the Father down to little carlos ran out to with such vehemence upon the men that they thought it best to give leg bail while they were able and fled <and were> pursued by our little spartan band away into the woods and dispersed themselves to their several homes


Here is what Brigham Young said about the incident...

This man,[Luman Walters] was sent for three times to go to the hill Cumorah to dig for treasure. People knew there was treasure there. Beman was one of those who sent for him. He came. Each time he said there was treasure there, but that he couldn’t get it; though there was one that could. The last time he came he pointed out Joseph Smith, who was sitting quietly among a group of men in the tavern, and said There was the young man that could find it, and cursed and swore about him in a scientific manner: awful!”


Young’s mention of Alva Beaman is interesting, for there are conflicting stories about his involvement in this affair. Lucy recalled that “Beaman came from the village of Livonia (which is about fifty miles from Palymyra) a man in whom we reposed much confidence and who was well worthy of the same to him Joseph told his apprehension of a mob and says we must drive them away.”

Joseph Knight’s version of events lines up more with what Brigham Young recalled:
But for keeping them [the plates] from the people they persecuted and abused them and they were obliged to hide them and they hid them under a Brick harth in the west room about this time came this Samuel Lawrance and one Beeman a grate rodsman and wanted to talk with him and he went into the west room and they proposed to go shares with him and tried every way to bargain with him but could not. Then Beeman took out his rods and held them up and they pointed dow to the harth where they were hid. There says Beeman it is under that harth so they had to garde the house until some time in November he obtained fifty dollars in money and hired a man to move him and his wife to Pensylvany to his fathers wife being unwell and wanted to go to her fathers he bout a piece of land of his father with a house and Barn on it


Beaman later joined the church and Joseph took his daughter Louisa as one of his Spiritual Wives...

Lucy is usually looked at as the religious influence on the family, but according to Porter Rockwell she was involved in the treasure digging as much as the men...

Rockwell said his mother and Mrs. Smith used to spend their Saturday evenings together telling their dreams, and that he was always glad to spend his afternoon holiday gathering pine knots for the evening blaze on the chance that his mother would forget to send him to bed, and that he might listen unnoticed to their talk. The most sober settlers of the district he said were “gropers” though they were ashamed to own it; and stole out to dig of moonlight nights, carefully effacing the traces of their ineffectual work before creeping home to bed. He often heard his mother and Mrs. Smith comparing notes, and telling how Such an one’s dream, and Such another’s pointed to the same lucky spot: how the spades often struck the iron sides of the treasure chest, and how it was charmed away, now six inches this side, now four feet deeper, and again completely out of reach. Joseph Smith was no gold seeker by trade; he only did openly what all were doing privately; but he was considered to be “lucky”. (Journal of Katherine Kane, 74)
Riding on a speeding train; trapped inside a revolving door;
Lost in the riddle of a quatrain; Stuck in an elevator between floors.
One focal point in a random world can change your direction:
One step where events converge may alter your perception.
_grindael
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Re: Inconsistent Stories (Early Mormonism)

Post by _grindael »

I didn't know where to post this, I hope that it is the right place, and I do so here because I don't want any threads started like "Where is grindael"? I am taking a break and I don't know if I'll be back. I don't want any drama, so that's all. Thanks to everyone who has taken an interest in my research and for your valuable insights that have helped me along the way.

Image
Riding on a speeding train; trapped inside a revolving door;
Lost in the riddle of a quatrain; Stuck in an elevator between floors.
One focal point in a random world can change your direction:
One step where events converge may alter your perception.
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